I’m not Matthew, but I do have a few comments on the design.
I don’t think including the packaging guidelines under the “Fedora Linux” category is a good fit. It looks like most of the content you included under Fedora Linux is user-facing, but the packaging guidelines are primarily for contributors. (They’re useful as a reference for users who want to make their own packages, but that’s not the target audience)
“There is no way to get back to the main Fedora website…” So I’d argue there is no “main Fedora website”, which is perhaps another problem in itself. But I assume you mean getfedora.org. I agree that it would be good to have clear links to that site—and probably Ask Fedora¸ too—for people who want to get to downloads after reading docs.
“No introduction of topics to help a new user…” Agreed. Some of the questions that I’ve answered from Outreachy applicants—particularly around the different variants—have made it very clear that we’re not explaining things well to newcomers. I don’t know how much we could address that on the front page versus an explainer page clearly linked from the front page, but it’s definitely something we should keep in mind.
“The dropdown opens a list of topics different from the list of topics actually available on the landing page of the website”. That’s intentional, as each module provides its own navigation. That prevents the navigation column from being so full as to be entirely unusable. That said, many modules could use some additional curation so that the navigation makes sense and is somewhat consistent. I do think the user docs should more closely (but not exactly) reflect the front page.
Relatedly, how do you think we could make the navbar and breadcrumbs be less confusing? I do think they both serve different purposes, so we want them both and we don’t want them to be identical. But we do want them to be helpful.
“A lot of content is repetitive”. What’s the issue with the repetitive content? (Assuming they all pull from the same “source” so we don’t have to update 10 different places). The idea is that people shouldn’t have to jump to many different places to find out what they need. So if you’re looking at the Installation Guide or the Sysadmin Guide, you should still see the minimum hardware requirements, for example, because we don’t expect that you should have to read both.
WRT the solution I propose, since the user can now toggle easily between different articles, I wanted to point out that - for example for releases- inside Fedora Linux- a section about Hardware overview can be mentioned once, and release notes can be another section with f35, f34, f33, etc. as topics inside it. This way the user can visit the hardware overview from any release note.
There isn’t exactly a problem with repetition of content, but it’d make the docs website more organized if articles are mentioned once properly IMO. And we should explore ways of redirecting the user to that one page whenever they would require it.
Please review the files again, as I’ve updated more content!
Okay, I see what you mean. What I have in mind is more along the lines of having sections that get included into different docs, so instead of redirecting the user to the page they need, it’s in there as part of a “recipe” for the general thing they’re accomplishing. Of course, it’s not a purely one-or-the-other situation. There will need to be a mix of the two to varying degrees based on context.
I really like the layout of your proposal, in particular how you handle the nav bar.
You asked for guidance on where to bucket the Packaging Guidelines. Those are, essentially, documents for a particular type of contributor: package maintainers. To some degree, you can consider that an engineering team, although it’s really more of a classification of individuals than a cohesive team, if that makes sense. I pointed out in another submission that a “policies” bucket that includes links various guidelines, policies, etc might be a good way to improve discoverability (e.g. so that you don’t have to know that the Changes Policies are part of the Program Management docs). There’s probably not a great way to automate that, but a manually-curated set of links would be better than what we have now, which is nothing.
Hi! I think this is generally quite good! I just have a few small comments…
How do people feel about “contribute”? To me, it seems too one-sided. My first response is something like “Join Fedora!” or “Get Involved!”… but maybe those sound like they’re too big, too much of a commitment? Any ideas for something in between (or a way to provide two paths — one the big “Fedora is awesome come be our friend!!!” message  message, and another “hey, you just wanna make a little improvement without a fuss? no problem!” 
I think in the solutions, I’ve room to make sections in a particular doc; this could be done!
Thank you! Currently, I have two iterations in mind; I think some user testing might help finalize one solution.
I saw someone’s introduction and how they had contributed to the fedora using the guidelines. I think I’d then bucket these inside a new Policies tab.
I think not. The only thing is, what should I focus on next? Should it be more around building the next level of information architecture- since I’ve just categorized the main headings right now? Or should it be around finalizing the home screen page from the iterations I’ve made?
The docs website doesn’t have its own slot right now and the rationale is this: docs are contextual to the edition or community team or process they are linked to. Starting from docs.fpo, I see a lot of documentation where you could access it primarily from somewhere else - Fedora Silverblue’s documentation you’d access from the silverblue website, the Fedora Project “doc” in actuality probably is best utilized as the “About” page for fedoraproject.org and styled accordingly.
I do not see docs.fedoraproject.org being a destination so much as a street actual destinations happen to live on, if that makes sense? The range of content it covers is so too disparate IMHO.
I would say a good next step would be a little info architecture work - figure out per document listed on the front of docs.fedoraproject.org, where that specific piece of content best belongs. Is it user-facing, contributor-facing, both? Is it product / technology focused, or is it process / team oriented? Etc. Maybe draw up a big table. Then we can work on making sure those connections are set up in the new fedoraproject.org design.
Two more screenshots to show the global header in a product front page context and in a subpage context:
You put into words a lot of things that were in my mind. Thanks! Even the community part of the docs website now has a space on the main website, which I can see from the designs:) And you’re definitely correct about docs being more around “about fedora” and not the main website…it also contains a lot of to-dos and getting started information, which could be added in
to one of the buckets on the main website!
Yes, you could see an information architecture I tried to make for the website right now, but it covers a range of different articles!
Sure, I was actually conflicted whether I should pickthis up first, or pick up a landing page design flow for the docs website first! But it makes sense to first sort all data we have and then take better design decisions accordingly!
Thanks for this clarification, it was really helpful. I’d just want to know your view on this- @bcotton , since you have created an issue for the outreachy applicants regarding the docs website- what do you think about the direction this might head to?
That makes sense. I didn’t know the “front page” work was so far along. I agree with Mo’s general idea of how to think of the docs front page. I do think it will be a sort of catch-all destination, so it’s good to think about how it will present to users, too.
I believe we have just a week for outreachy contributions-so I was thinking along those lines- but any ongoing work shouldn’t be constrained via such deadlines- so yep. I think for me I’d want to have a discussion with the design team and form an IA which would probably help everyone:)
Associating the docs pages with the repos sounds intriguing. Could there be a one-to-one correlation between documentation pages and repos such that the former would provide a map of sorts to the latter? Maybe such a map would help to guide potential contributors to where we want them to go? It sort of seems logical that people would/should go to the documentation before going to the repo (to file an issue and/or submit a patch).
The idea wasn’t to associate docs pages with repos… rather, treat them in the visual design of the front landing page of docs.fpo in the same manner repos are treated on a gitforge. But it would be nice for each doc to have a link to its associated repo somewhere.
Hi ! I had been thinking about the docs+Fedora website, and concluded that doc’s as a website is a “resource” for Fedora users as well as open source contributors.
So maybe, the main website should have a bucket (in the main nav) as “resource” where you could put docs. And in support we could put “Ask Fedora” and other support links from the docs.
@duffy I think even though this point you raised is right, but here’s what I think a probable solution would look like:
We have a docs website with all the documentation and say for example for Fedora silverblue page has a button that says “Documentation” and it should link to the Fedora silverblue documentation on the docs website.
Initially I was thinking that Documentation would be split between the main website and the docs website but I think it would make better sense if all the documentation is available in one place for the user- like a one stop solution.
The main website’s purpose would then be to link all the places where there is a Documentation to the one on the docs website ( basically there shouldn’t be Documentation embedded in the main website, rather it should be a redirect to the docs website)
The main website would show the overall picture of the Fedora project and products, and how someone could be a part of it- the docs website would be a handbook for everything in that.
I just don’t understand what the fedora wiki is all about I can see user pages listed there, but other than that it looks like a documentation website, and I believe the landing page of the Fedora wiki should have been on the main website somehow?
That’s a concept I very much agree with! Maybe it could be split between ‘user doc’, that is the upper half of the page, and ‘project doc’, that the part beyond Fedora Project and Community. But IMHO, we should only do such a split if the content of the gets ‘out of hand’ because of an overwhelming amount of information bits. To keep in on one page emphasizes that the user content is not ‘just there’, but is a collaborative community effort that needs commitment from those looking for information in the user documentation.
Unfortunately, the rationale is inaccurate or only half true. The edition or spins documentation is semantically contextual to the overall documentation. It describes the specifics of the edition / spin or ‘solution’. All editions and spins are based on exactly the same RPMs. For example, for the database PostgreSQL, there is one RPM (or the one RPM split into parts). All editions and spins, which use PostgreSQL somehow, use the same RPMs and therefore with the same basic properties (and the same documentation needed). But they need additional documentation specific to the edition/spin. E.g. Workstation can use graphical desktop management tools, server can’t but needs CLI or WEB based graphical tools. But the problem, that these different UIs are to resolve, is the same. And then there are a number of points, they are identical for all editions anyway, like booting or network connection management. The configuration is different and sometimes the choice of tools. But even the latter is ultimately a different choice out of a generally available set with the same properties for all editions / spins.
That’s another issue in itself. Silverblue is the only one so far, everything else but ‘a lot of documentation …’. CoreOS has a similar address (coreos.jp.p), but no specific content. It is forward to their getfedora page. Others have sub-site or pages in the docs namespace, or none at all. All that is quite confusing for users and should be fixed in the long run to be consistent for Fedora Project as a whole and all subprojects.
The wiki is the ‘very old way’ of documentation and got a kind of supplement to the ‘old way’ of documentation and is now mostly object of migration to the ‘current way’ of documentation. Sometimes it is used as a more spontaneous way for transitional documentation or only short-lived documentation. And some groups simply stick with the ‘very old way’ for the most diverse reasons. Therefore, we should not worry about it for the time being.