Introduce yourself 2025

The Water Cooler
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Hi there
My name is Marco from Italy I worked for 2 years as SOC analyst while I was studying Computer Science at university (I did quit btw). Rn I’m a cyber security consultant for the same company and fascinated about IAM/PAM solutions (btw, do you have experience with some?) and of course cyber security enthusiast I do always try to invest some of my free time to get more knowledge.

Clearly I already knew Linux/Unix however I never used as much as now since I decided to make Fedora the official kernel at home with an old workstation without much resources.

I’d like to improve my knowledge, meet other cs enthusiasts and maybe, who knows, even find a new job across EU and/or across the world.

Looking forward to read some answers
Thank you!

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Hi Marco, welcome! :slightly_smiling_face:

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Benvenuto, Marco!

You’ll love it here…

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Ciao Marco, io sono solo uno che usa il computer per cazzeggiare, in passato lavoravo allo sviluppo di robe per il Web. Sono passato definitivamente a “linux” quando è terminato il supporto per Windows 7, solo perché non mi andava di pagare altre licenze e buttare via l’hardware “obsoleto”. Ho fatto un po’ di “distro hopping” e poi ho scelto Fedora perché funziona meglio della concorrenza con l’hardware che ho a disposizione, oltre il fatto che passando da una versione alla successiva non ho mai avuto problemi, a parte un paio di programmi che non c’entrano con Fedora (GIMP e Dejadup).

La mia opinione è che Fedora sia la più “professionale” delle distribuzioni (escludendo robe a pagamento), quindi se vuoi usarla per lavoro (magari con la prospettiva delle robe a pagamento), probabilmente è la scelta migliore.

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SOC IAP/PAM CS. Surely looks intriguing, but from the comfort of one’s home is doesn’t mean too much. ) I would recommend giving Linux a go for a buffed up home PC. Security nowadays is mostly script kidding, but messing with low level driver stuff to get the max performance out of your hardware will give you more madskilz to show off to fellow hackers. )

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Yes sure I just mentioned the topics of my job and/or major interests. I do not implement such solution at home, I use fedora for different purposes :slight_smile:

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Hello there I’m Sarah,

I’m new to linux & this is my first experience. Theres so much to understand it feels overwhelming with information all over the place. I honestly don’t know where to begin so I have been playing around with things, looking up differences to try to understand all the terminologies together.

I hope I can make a friend & have a buddy to learn with; it feels like quite an adventure so far. I have been trying to figure certain things out which I asked in ask fedora still hoping to get an answer as I hear the greatest thing about linux is you can customize however you want & not be forced to keep something you don’t want.

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Hello Sarah, more or less computers are all the same and “linux” is actually easier than Windows (cannot say about stuff from Apple). The thing is there is one Windows while “linux” is a collection of software somebody puts together, so there are many “linux”. Which is both fun and freedom. I think everybody around here learned by trial and error so expect things to break, make backups and do not play with a computer you aren’t allowed to erase. If you don’t touch anything, no problem, “linux” is way much more “stable”.

Do not feel intimidated by people, traditionally the “open source community” has got some rough edges but at the end we are all here for the same reasons.

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I have to disagree that linux is easier then windows. I was a windows user all my life & tinkering with that has been easier so far. Trial & error is a way to learn but I wouldn’t say that’s a good way to learn. Especially if you mess up & need help with something your thread may be missed because of how many posts each day & theres no option to bump a post.

I don’t feel imtimidated by people i’m not sure where you got that from? Updating has been great so far i’ve only seen improvements since each one i’ve done it about 4 times already. Hopefully doing things on there will become easier as I learn more.

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What do you feel more difficult in “linux” compared to Windows exactly?

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Removing something feel free to check my profile & look at my threads. If you know the answers feel free to reply to them. I’d appreciate it.

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From what I read, you want to disable/remove some component from Gnome and you want to enable some features in a “virtual keyboard” for touchscreens. I would not try the first and unfortunately I don’t have a touchscreen for testing.

We need to make a step back.
Like I wrote above, “linux” is a collection of software.
Fedora comes with two “flavors”, Gnome is the traditional Workstation but recently KDE Plasma moved from “spin” to the same level as Gnome.

So to make it short, the first thing I would try is Fedora KDE.

You can still install all the applications you want, it makes no difference.
The whole desktop and its components are totally different from Gnome, there isn’t the “health” thing, and touchscreen support is different, KDE provides many more options than Gnome, so there are chances you can get what you want.

Take a look here:

Then, Fedora provides several “spins” that are base Fedora plus a different dekstop (or windows manager). IMO they are either aimed to some specific niche (like WM that you control mostly via your keyboard) or “legacy”, meaning they somehow mimic some old version of Windows.

Then again, “linux” is the same regardless the distribution. So you if Fedora doesn’t meet your needs, you could try some other distribution. The most known is Ubuntu and derivatives, Opensuse.

If with “difficult” we mean “worse hardware support”, yes, that is one of the drawbacks of “linux”. It is quite obvious if you consider you can’t find PCs with “linux” preinstalled on the shelves and if you ask the shop guy if a printer works with “linux” she/he looks at you like you have a flower growing on your forehead.

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Please read the thread again as I have specifically stated what I was asking for you don’t have to make a guess if you read it. Responding in this thread about it will only cause confusion jumping back & forth. I understand that linux distros are different & so are desktop enviroments regardless of which one I choose it should be easy to add & remove something.

I’m willing to try other distros & desktop enviroments but being that I made the choice of Fedora Workstation 42 & this is my first experience so far I like it. Giving up & trying something else just because of one or two things isn’t acceptable. That kind of behavior should be disencouraged & learning how to fully remove something should be encouraged. It’s unfortunate that fully removing something isn’t a straight forward process & in my opinion should be.

So far i’ve learned about enabling, disabling, installing & uninstalling something in copr now I am learning about RPM. If you read the thread I stated what I did & it didn’t work. I understand this wellbeing in settings is apart of the Gnome enviroment never the less there should be a way to fully remove it.

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First of all, by using KDE Plasma instead of Gnome you don’t “give up” anything, you just pick a different tool for the job. Like I said, there are many different DEs and WMs, some are more “niche” than the others but they exist for some reason. For example, Gnome misses the options to configure even the basic things like system fonts (you need a tool named “gnome-tweaks”) while KDE Plasma allows to configure basically everything. It can be too few or too much, depending on your needs and tastes. Besides, you can even install KDE Plasma over Gnome and vice-versa, you would be asked what DE to load at boot. Of course you can install GTK applications over KDE and QT applications over gnome, both DEs provide the necessary tools and libraries to integrate those applications (sometimes with minor graphical issues). Again, GTK applications are minimalistic while KDE applications are full of options.

Speaking of “behaviors”.
Removing system components if not “strightforward” because the user is not expected to do that. Please consider that Gnome by design does not expect the user to change almost anything, like I said, you can’t change the system font (Cosmic DE was created because Gnome does not allow applications theming). The user is expected to make use of the features provided and to ignore those he doesn’t not like, not to remove those features. For example, Gnome provides a tool for checking the weather, you don’t like it or don’t need it? It is not meant to be removed. You just do not open the weather tool, leave it alone.

In theory you could grab Gnome source code, fork it and make your own Gnome with less features, different features or more features. In this sense you can remove whatever you want but again it is not “strigthforward”.

Gnome has got “extensions”. But again there isn’t any way to install of manage extensions from inside Gnome. You either use an application like “gnome-extensions” or a browser with a sort of “connector”. With extensions you can change some things, mostly you can show, move elsewhere or hide informations. Problem is, besides the usual issues of extensions (safety, performance), at any Gnome upgrade extensions must be upgraded as well. I gave up long ago.

Then, everybody does “distro hopping” that means to play with different distributions from time to time. That is because there are differencies people likes to try and for the same reason as above, to find the right tool for the given job. Debian is conservative, Ubuntu is popular, Arch is “do it yourself”, Fedora is bleeding edge, Mint is comfortable, etc. Then there are countless “minor” distributions with a particular niche, like anything else. There are distros for portable USB keys, there are distros for network testing, there are distros for anonimity, etc.

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Thanks for the information I do have a better understanding on why this is difficult & I see now why people switch around. It’s unfortunate that something like that is a fickle I have tried other desktop environments since & they seem worse then gnome. When installing them alot of fedora mirror urls failed & even though they looked alright after install some just had constant crashes with apps.

Cosmic - didn’t have touchscreen working if it did support it.

sway - I think this is keyboard only nothing was happening at all

mate - everything’s super tiny I didn’t see no screen keyboard

xfce - tiny & touch was not great with it

kde desktop - a little clunky the windows could have been slightly better for a touch screen. The touch keyboard I couldn’t get the layout to switch after assigning it a full us computer keyboard. I would hit apply & nothing would happen also the keyboard wouldn’t switch colors until I relogged & it’s dark theme is ugly can’t change it’s colors to black like an amoled black theme. I spent some time trying to customize the windows while it does let you do a lot of it there were some spots that just wouldn’t change.

kde mobile - same as above basically. Wallpaper change to a solid color does not work. The 3 buttons in my opinion needed to be a bit bigger & spaced apart more on my screen they are just squished together in the center bottom & look pretty tiny.

When you say fork the source code from a repo & tweak it I guess if it’s built in there that you have to work it that way. This is very disappointing to hear as I thought it would be a easier process to remove these extras. Coming from windows I thought it would be easier I guess because there are tools avaliable like privacysexy & guides with information on specifics like how to completely remove Cortana, Smartscreen, Recall, & etc. Then you have other things that can remove stuff when windows won’t let you nornally like assassinatefiles.

I was thinking that weather, bluetooth, or the wellness was built into the os & that something had to be done there to remove it. If this is a setting & it’s built into the desktop environment then I can only hope the community can strive together to make this a better situation. I’m not the type of person to live with bloat & just don’t use it if I can remove it I rather would & free up the space.

Part of what drew me was the hype of full control remove any conponent nothing is nescessary. So that gave a certain impression but I see it’s not quite so. I understand you may suggest arch because it’s a do it yourself situation which maybe down the road I might try but as a first timer & just trying to understand how everything works i’m gunna stick with what I got then try to learn how to add & remove things. Hopefully my threads will get answered as I learn more I just hope they don’t get forgotten because theres no bump option.

Would you know if theres a centralized review place that I guess people would know where they look at to see feedback? I know they probably got their own forums & feedback sections but theres probably a place where you review every desktop environments then list pros & cons.

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Arch is meant for people who like to install and configure each piece of the said “collection” that makes a “linux” system. Maybe even compile some things. The idea is you know exactly what runs on your computer and what options are selected.
It does not make any difference about Gnome, that is the same for everybody. You won’t find any different in Gnome with Arch compared to Gnome with Fedora.

There are forks of Gnome, Mate was forked to keep Gnome 2, Cinnamon was forked to use Gnome technologies with a “traditional desktop”, Budgie more or less the same, Cosmic is like a mod of Gnome written in Rust. Forks soon or later meet always the same problem that is with time they get too far for the main branch to re-use the same technologies then they require lots of manpower to move on re-implementing more and more parts, otherwise then fall behind. Consider for example Wayland. It is a protocol for rendering the application windows and, contrary of previous X11, it must be implemented by each single Desktop Environment or Windows Manager with its own composer. Each GTK Desktop Environment, lets sat XFCE for example, must rewrite its old composer to provide Wyland, write a new composer from scratch or use current Gnome composer, which then brings Gnome dependencies and enforces Gnome features.

About removing stuff.
First of all, lets clarify the difference between Windows, that is an Operating System like “linux” and Gnome, that is a Desktop Environment, whose goal is to provide some tools for managing some of the Operating System features and the application windows.

Now we must define what the Operating System is. Basically it is a collection of tools for managing the computer hardware and to execute and manage the applications. This is the part where you actually can build your Operating System from scratch with “linux”, you can pick the source code of each single tool, compile it the way you prefer, add to the system, set for execution and configure it with the proper options. A “linux” system does not include any mandatory “service” and does not need any Desktop, you can fully operate it in CLI or “text-only” mode, run a bare minimum “services” and that is mostly the case of servers.

Now, Gnome is just another set of tools you can use if/when you need a graphical interface for using the PC. Like it or not, there are several other set of tools (other DE and WM) that provide a graphical interface, with different design and different features. It is like a thing to configure the network, another thing to configure the printer, a tool to configure the language and the timezone, etc, then something to provide the list of installed applications, execute and manage the windows.

Most “linux” users “distro-hop” and try almost all those DE and WM for some reason or another, for fun, to learn, for some particular need or just because they are not satisfied and they want something else, more, different. Fedora has always been the best Gnome implementation, Cinnamon was made for Mint, Budgie for Solus, since recently most used KDE distro was Kubuntu, that is an Ubuntu derivative. XFCE is for both a traditional or “retro” desktop and a minimalistic one, it is offered as option by every distro. Then there are more specialized solutions like the tiling window managers, I guess those appeal mostly programmers or system admins who need to manage the screen in that way.

Your idea of “removing” parts of the Desktop Environment is a bit strange because IF the developers thought it made sense, they would provide the means to enable/disable those parts. It is not about “removing”, all you actually need is an option so that that part is not loaded at boot. Yes, it still consumes some disk space but it is not a big deal. Like I said, Gnome design works on the opposite principle, that is you don’t have to and can not enable/disable anything. For example, software installation, removal and updates is handled by “Gnome Software”. It starts at boot and does its own things, always running in background. There isn’t any option to disable it, even if, like me, you use the terminal and the “distro-native” package manager. You can stop Gnome Software to load at boot by creating a directory and placing a configuration file inside with an option that tells Gnome Software “no thanks”, but see, Gnome developers do not want to disable Gnome Software, that is the point of the missing “disable” option.

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Yes, each project has got its own “community” services where you can provide feedback.
BUT…
The fact is developers don’t like it and they won’t change their minds.
There are countless examples but KDE and Gnome are the biggest ones I am aware of. When they moved from KDE 3 to KDE 4 they thought to re-invent the “desktop” with “plasmoids”. What is a plasmoid? Everything. It can be a container, it can be a widget, it can be the whole desktop. Plus at the beginning KDE 4 had an orrible performance. Result of the “revolution”? Many, probably most of KDE 3 users moved elsewhere.
Now Gnome. The change from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 was catastrophic because it meant to abandon the “traditional desktop” metaphor to embrace a sort of “touch screen” - “pagin” metaphor. Plus, people who made decisions did not care of the disruption the changes in Gnome and GTK were having on other DEs and application developers, in short, zero compatibility, especially backwards. Gnome 3 had several forks as consequence and still counting.

Here we are with one of the two main issues with “linux”.
I said of the lacking hardware support.
The other issue is there isn’t any way to force somebody to do anything.
Everybody does her/his own thing for her/his personal reasons and if you like it, fine, if you don’t, bad luck.

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Hello everyone,
My name is Christoph and I am an SAP “Basis” specialist for about 10 yrs now. Hosting business SAP systems on SLES systems brought me to Linux in the first place.
Since then I am experimenting with Linux on my private hardware too, running a pihole and iobroker in an Debian LXC Container on proxmox now, as well as a kodi installation on an RPi4.
With the upcoming EoL of W10 and the growing gaming community on Linux caused by the success of Steam Deck I made the step and switched my main PC from W10 to Nobara (KDE) in the first place.
Some days ago, I managed to completely kill the system and now I am trying out Fedora with GNOME which I feel a bit more comfortable with than KDE.

Looking forward for some help that I clearly need :wink:

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This is only because from what I understand of your explanation this is built into the desktop environment because it’s located in settings. You are correct it is not a big deal that it still takes up space but you can disable it & not use it. But that’s what the term bloat is something you don’t need & don’t use but sits there & takes space anyways. So asking to remove something completely is not strange at all it should be normal. Developer’s don’t always add things that make sense or is needed & being that the subject is specifically about a “wellness tracker” which function is to track how much time the screen has been on & set up notifications to remind you to take a break it’s not a necessity.

Anyone can convince themselves something makes sense & into agreeing it should be added. To other people they may like it because it’s a self-help app which is to help you because you need that help or someone else thinks you need that help which was why it’s built in. To each their own opinion on whether this is useful or not as an app built into the settings in my opinion it’s not.

Why would I need something to track & tell me how long my screens been on or notifications to remind me to get off the laptop & step away from it? Almost everything has a clock app with a timer, alarm, & laps. So if I really needed this which I don’t 10/10 I would set a timer on my phone to go off. But I don’t need this at all & it’s a waste of space.

Disabling it doesn’t remove it & when you don’t need something you remove it not let it take up space & bloat up the place. I understand everything you’ve explained so if I had to fork the desktop environment just to remove one thing like the wellness tracker. That’s crazy to me because it’s not a package that I could find with the software app or something like rpm list.

I understand why people fork & make those changes but as you said then maintaining it becomes a job you want the improvememts from the update & you need to strip out the bloat which this can be a pain I imagine so this is why people hop around. I see that getting changes like those to happen from the top of the ladder down becomes politics & pride. I take it nobody who develops for any os, or desktop environment cares about if people switch or not away from their software because people will come back or everyones use to just hopping around it just takes the we’re losing people to better optimized software competitve drive away from the devs.

I do appreciate your explanations it’s very informative for my first time experience. I only hope I can learn more so that I can take what I have & make it better for my device. Here 2 in 1 detachable keyboard laptops have become super popular almost to the point where I can’t walk into any place that sells a laptop that isn’t detachable i’d have to go to amazon to get one specifically that doesen’t detach lol.

It becomes so popular that many of these laptops now have a handle on the back for you to stand them up or put your arm through it & keep the laptop on your arm, they even sell arm cases you put your laptop in & strap around your arm. In our city you see a lot of people walk around with a laptop on your arm. It reminds me of some old geek movies & this one scene from a movie called kung fury there’s this hacker fighter who when he shows up has a keyboard strapped to his arm & he uses the keyboard to summon his programmed robot to fight for him.

So I guess the tech on your arm has finally become that popular that when spectrum or verizon knock on your door they usually have a tablet on their arm. I’ve seen a few other companies do this but all the college kids now do it. So I imagine theres a high demand for full touch keyboard working smoothly on linux distros & desktop environments so people can work seemlessly.

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If you don’t want “bloat” you need something that was designed to be modular, so you can add / remove modules independently. For example I guess Sway works more in that direction, meaning you need to add separate components to each single feature you expect in a desktop (like I don’t kno, a task bar and widgets for networking, sound, etc.).

Gnome was not designed for that user case, it was designed to counter the classical consequence of the “unix-linux” way, meaning things are glued together somehow but they don’t look like they belong to the same thing, they aren’t “unified”.

The premise of Gnome is the guys who design the environmenta make all the choices for the user. Ideally so that everything is already “optimized” and the user doesn’t have to configure, set, add, remove, anything.

Of course the problem with it is the choices made by guys at the Gnome Project may be not liked by everybody. They know it and extensions provide some ways to “customize” Gnome. Like I said if that is not enough, there are forks of Gnome like Budgie or Cinnamon. But none of the things I wrote are intended to avoid “bloat”.

I don’t know about tablets.
I am old, in my eyes you cannot do any real work with tablets.