Fedora31 Boot options not going to latest Kernel by default

orriginal · November 20, 2019, 9:09am

On start up, The Boot Options menu appears as normal but I have noticed that of the 3 options displayed it ALWAYS now highlights the older Kernal and NOT the latest - the options are
Fedora ( 5.3.8-300.fc31.x86_64 )
Fedora ( 5.3.7-301. **********************
Fedora ( 4.19.83-300 ********** IT IS THIS ONE THAT IS ALWAYS HIGHLIGHTED

Am I right in assuming this is happening because I have an old NVidia Card and I am using a legacy Kernal so the Driver can work ?
Will this change to the latest as soon as the Drivers are update to Fedora 31 ?
And Are the dnf updates still working on other software in my system or am I now stuck in the past ?

Sorry if I am being stupid but would be very niterested to know

Thanks in advance for your help

hhlp · November 20, 2019, 12:57pm

Yes because you installed those kernel package…

Yes you response your answer by yourself, read more in detail with a few tips:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/legacy-gpu/

and don’t forget the time frame support:

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142

Why is going to affect DNF?

DNF is only for install package… is working as usual when a update is available doesn’t matter where the package come from, DNF install it. that’s

Regards.,

nightromantic · November 20, 2019, 2:31pm

Can you please post output of

sudo cat /etc/default/grub

The answer to this should be available from /etc/default/grub file, as far as I know.

To expand a bit on @hhlp’s answer, dnf should work ok even on an older kernel. It should update all the other packages, it will also install newer kernel versions. It won’t remove your legacy kernel while you’re running it. But it will remove legacy kernel if you install/update a kernel package while running 5.3.7 or 5.3.8 version of the kernel.

One more note. Do you use nouveu or proprietary Nvidia driver? RpmFusion seems to have packages for Nvidia’s driver versions 340 and 390 – these two should support quite a number of old GPUs, and they could work ok on current kernels too.

orriginal · November 20, 2019, 3:14pm

[nightromantic]

Can you please post output of ```
sudo cat /etc/default/grub

Listed below


<pre>GRUB_TIMEOUT=5
GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=&quot;$(sed &apos;s, release .*$,,g&apos; /etc/system-release)&quot;
GRUB_DEFAULT=saved
GRUB_DISABLE_SUBMENU=true
GRUB_TERMINAL_OUTPUT=&quot;console&quot;
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=&quot;resume=/dev/mapper/fedora_localhost--live-swap rd.lvm.lv=fedora_localhost-live/root rd.lvm.lv=fedora_localhost-live/swap rhgb quiet&quot;
GRUB_DISABLE_RECOVERY=&quot;true&quot;
GRUB_ENABLE_BLSCFG=true
GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text
</pre>

orriginal · November 20, 2019, 3:18pm

nightroma
One more note. Do you use nouveu or proprietary Nvidia driver? seems to have packages for Nvidia’s driver versions 340 and 390 – these two should support quite a number of old GPUs, and they could work ok on current kernels too.

I followed advice given to me on this website about a problem I had trying to install the RPM drivers last week - the system hung and I had to reinstall…It was suggested I install the legacy driver and then use the RPM for Fedora 30 I believe… I’ll try and find it and paste back here

orriginal · November 20, 2019, 3:27pm

The commands I used to install the Legacy Kernal and drivers came from RPM and were
sudo dnf copr enable kwizart/kernel-longterm-4.19
sudo dnf install akmods gcc kernel-longterm kernel-longterm-devel
sudo dnf install xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-340xx akmod-nvidia-340xx --releasever=30

It works but now I am worried that the Kernal will never be updated and I may loose security and functionality as a result…

hhlp · November 20, 2019, 4:18pm

ahh, you installed from a COPR repo, Update depend of the maintainer of this COPR repo

as a @nightromantic point you, you’re now in 31 RPM fusion has a workaround, for this release.

https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA#Legacy_GeForce_8.2F9.2F200.2F300

Please see: Workaround for keeping 340xx driver on newer 31+, and that is precisely what you do…

WARNING

EOL by NVIDIA by the 2019 year end. Available up to Fedora 30.

CONCLUSION

I have a GEforce 9800 and I forget totally to install, it work really fine as it, the only solution here, is to install NVIDIA Drivers as you can see here:

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/340.107/README/index.html

You have to shut down GDM, start the installer, this is quite old and all the documentation is base on XORG and now use WAYLAND as Display Server, personally I don’t test it this method.

Regards.,

orriginal · November 21, 2019, 7:26am

Thank you very Much - I’ll try that work around and see what happens

nightromantic · November 21, 2019, 9:36am

Judging from this it’s likely that when the newer kernel will be installed on your system – it will be chosen as the default boot option. We can change this though. It’s may be a good thing to do in your case actually.

I’ve found that other thread, I’ll try to read thorough it later. I’ll ask some questions here (though other people could have asked them of you before, sorry for that

Have you tried using you computer with default driver (called nouveau) – without installing NVidia one? If it works ok – this may be a better long-term option in your case.
Is this a desktop or a notebook? Does it have integrated Intel video?
If you absolutely can’t use nouveau and/or integrated Intel video, then from the cursory look I’ve got on your other thread, using Workaround for keeping 340xx driver on newer f31+ as you did should be better option than possible alternatives. In this case you should always use LTS (long term support) kernel you’ve installed for this purpose. In such a case it’s best to ensure it stays the default option in the boot menu.

As far as I know, LTS kernel is the version of kernel that gets security updates for a long time. No new functionality, you’re right here – but what new functionality do you want from your kernel if all your hardware is working all right?

Separate question is will the package maintainer continue to support and update the package. @kwizart – from whose repo you’ve installed the LTS kernel version – is Fedora package maintainer (for quite a number of the packages in the “official” repo) and also maintains NVidia driver packages in RPMFusion. There’s a good chance (not an absolute guarantee, of course) that he will be updating LTS kernel builds in copr repo – at least while this remains feasible from the technical standpoint.

In other words, you should be fine at least while F31 is current… Still I’d suggest to think about some alternatives for the future. The driver version you need is EOL by NVidia itself (as @hhlp pointed out) – which means no fixes for driver itself even if the problems would be found, and also it can too much work (and no demand) to make it work for Fedora 32 and onwards.

In short, again, you shouldn’t have major problems with this LTS kernel – but there’s a quite high possibility of problems with NVidia driver in future Fedora releases.

@hhlp, may I disagree with you (respectfully, of course ;-). From what I know, there’s no advantage to installing NVidia driver from their website while we have good and working packaged version from RPMFusion – but there’re a number of disadvantages. I would strongly advice against doing so.

Also if @kwizart couldn’t make his packages work with F31 kernel (and only with LTS one) – there’s a good chance driver from NVidia directly won’t work either.

That’s my opinion, I could be wrong, of course.

hhlp · November 21, 2019, 10:09am

There are some questions we can ask here:

Will The packager Maintainer continue with this support?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of having this kernel?
How much advantage Can I take of this kernel?
Can I work with the same with the official latest kernel?
How much benefit(performance) do I have from working with RPM Fusion NVIDIA that I don’t have with Noveau?
Can I sacrifice this performance/advantages?
Is NVIDIA Drivers a solution for a LONG TERM Support?

Regards.,

nightromantic · November 21, 2019, 11:16am

From what I’ve gathered so far, there’s some problem with 340 driver and current F31 kernels – they don’t like each other. But this driver works on LTS kernel, so driver’s package maintainer provided this kernel as a workaround for people who really need NVidia’s 340 driver on their F31 system.

Disadvantages are quite clear: it’s not a standard Fedora kernel, it’s an older kernel (it won’t have some features specific to 5.X version).

In general there’s also a BIG question of trust: you shouldn’t install – anything really – but especially kernel from people you don’t trust. In this case we know the maintainer is a trusted person and Fedora packager.

As far as I understand – no, it can’t, that’s the reason @orriginal used suggested workaround and installed LTS kernel.

That’s the first question I’d ask myself – and the one I’ve asked @orriginal (though in some other words). One of the best solution in my opinion would be using nouveau – if it works ok – or integrated Intel video – if it’s an option.

I strongly support you here, I’m quite sure they are not (regardless of their source, RPMFusion or NVidia’s site). I clearly stated this in my previous post.

@hhlp, if the questions are for @orriginal to think about and my comments are superfluous – then please forgive me

hhlp · November 21, 2019, 12:33pm

to think about and my comments are superfluous – then please forgive me

I’ve never thought your comment are superfluos, you’re a value community member, with a Good value and answer here… that is precisely what we are looking for…

Regards.,

orriginal · November 21, 2019, 3:35pm

First of all, I would really like to say THANK YOU for your help with this guys…Very

SO - in answer to the question about NOUVEAU - Yes, I di try it and was going to continue to use it but I found my machine hanging on occasions, randomly… I had had that issue on previous releases so figured that I would install the driver via RPM…but… So.then I followed the RPM advice for this legacy Kernal…sadly, the RPM page did not fully explain the issue and the fact that it may not change…or even get worse in future releases of Fedora…which leave me with a real problem Lol…

In answer to “Does my machine have an inbuilt intel graphice”… YEs…it does but my machine is an old DELL Optiplex GX620 and the inbuilt card is more designed for Server tasks than Graphics like we see today on the internet.
I could change my grpahics card however - What is a suggesttion that is a little future proof ?? It is in a PCI slot

Once again…THANK YOU - you lot aer one reason I stay with Fedora… May your Gods bless your Socks and Keep them Dry

nightromantic · November 25, 2019, 1:16pm

First of all, my experience with nouveau is quite similar to yours. It generally works ok for me, but sometimes (for some kernel versions) it had issues. As fa as I remember, the last major issue I had was in the very beginning of current year – I even installed proprietary driver for some time. But I could use current Nvidia driver as my GPU is a newer one (and sometimes used for light gaming – although not on Fedora).

From what I’ve heard mainly cheap AMD GPU should be a good choice as a replacement (I assume you’re not interested in gaming). I saw several reports – both second-hand and even a couple of first-hand ones – that current open-source AMD driver included in the kernel works just fine – and out of the box I must stress here! Aside from hassle-free experience for yourself you’ll be supporting company that made major efforts to support open-source driver for their hardware.

I can’t advice on particular model as I’ve never used them myself.

As for current NVidia products – the situation with nouveau is quite clear for you. What’s more is I’ve heard about it working terribgle for at least some newer NVidia’s GPU. On the other hand there’re quite a few users of their GPU, and they say that proprietary driver works quite well for them. But it doen’t support wayland still, as far as I know (that was the reason I’ve switched to nouveau driver several Fedora releases ago – and moved any gaming me and my son do to other Linux distro).

I personally think that some reasonably-priced AMD card – maybe passively cooled one if you don’t do gaming on this box – should be a good choice – although I’d advise doing some research regarding particular models and any issues with them. I also think that when I’ll be shopping for an upgrade for my GPU (I hope not to soon) – I’ll be choosing AMD myself… although I’ve always was an NVidia guy… unless Nvidia with change their policy regarding open source Linux driver

orriginal · November 25, 2019, 2:57pm

Thank you fo rthat reply - Full of good advice I think
I have been using NVidia for many years and it seems my days with them are about to end…Adn if AMD are relly supporting open source…well…they can have my money - So…THANK you and I shall go hunting
Best wishes to you and your Son and Happy gaming…( I am still on a PS3 for that LOL )

kwizart · December 16, 2019, 2:28pm

Side note about legacy nvidia-340xx serie is that since we have a new maintainer, someone provided the fix to make it works with 5.4 kernel.
By chance this last kernel will be a “Long Term support” kernel, so it will allow nvidia-340xx end-users to remain on the safe side and eventually not break again on 5.5+ kernel updates.

It’s still surprising to see that many users using legacy hardware, so I hope people will help to maintain the 340xx serie within rpmfusion and report issue (and eventually fixes).
https://rpmfusion.org/Contribute

Thx