I’m familiar with the USB stack, so I’ll ask here to ensure that:
Someone asked a similar question on Framework Discourse two months ago and never got an answer. Question for the Framework hardware engineers: Does the Framework 16 motherboard support USB Dual Role Data features? - Framework Laptop 16 - Framework Community
Maybe someone on their Discord could have a look into their settings to find out what controller they use?
Thank you, @theprogram. I’ve linked them.
I don’t see any particular reason to believe that asking somewhere synchronous is more likely to provide answers that somewhere asynchronous doesn’t, unless I’ve misunderstood how such communities operate.
Irrespective, I intend to posit this to Support.
It is not as I see it a matter of likelyhood, but of ‘where the community is’. Different communities maintain spaces and followings in different places. Personally I find the barrier of entry to Discord a little annoying, and the conversation a little childish.
One reason though that syschronous communication sometimes works better is the ‘stream of consciousness’ that forces a feedback (response). The downfall is that response mught be of lower quality.
I asked a friend to look up their Framework USB controller. Then I though '“Roke has a Framework”, so can you identify your controller with
lsusb
to find the name or device ID of the controller, and see if it supports USB Dual Role from that?
Mine lists
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
or
sudo lshw
Which returns for me
*-usb:0
description: USB controller
product: Renoir/Cezanne USB 3.1
vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD]
physical id: 0.3
bus info: pci@0000:04:00.3
version: 00
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix xhci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=xhci_hcd latency=0
resources: irq:32 memory:fca00000-fcafffff
@theprogram, indeed. Ideally, we should be discussing hardware at FW’s Discourse instance, but I’ll take the assistance where I can, and what these tools return is vaguely Fedora-specific.
On that note, lsusb and lshw -businfo | grep -E usb don’t provide much:
#!/usr/bin/env sh
lsusb
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 001 Device 002: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub Bus 001 Device 003: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub Bus 001 Device 004: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub Bus 001 Device 005: ID 32ac:0014 Framework Laptop 16 Numpad Module Bus 001 Device 006: ID 0e8d:e616 MediaTek Inc. Wireless_Device Bus 001 Device 007: ID 27c6:609c Shenzhen Goodix Technology Co.,Ltd. Goodix Fingerprint USB Device Bus 001 Device 008: ID 32ac:0018 Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Module - ISO Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub Bus 002 Device 002: ID 05e3:0625 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB3.2 Hub Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0bda:8156 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. USB 10/100/1G/2.5G LAN Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
#!/usr/bin/env sh
lshw -businfo | grep -E usb
I’ve converted it to text/tab-separated-values:
usb@1 usb1 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@1:2 bus USB2.1 Hub usb@1:3 bus USB2.0 Hub usb@1:3.2 input10 input Framework Laptop 16 Numpad Module Consumer Control usb@1:4 bus USB2.0 Hub usb@1:4.1 generic Goodix Fingerprint USB Device usb@1:4.2 input12 input Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Module - ISO Keyboard usb@1:5 communication Wireless_Device usb@2 usb2 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@2:2 bus USB3.2 Hub usb@2:2.1 generic USB 10/100/1G/2.5G LAN usb@3 usb3 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@4 usb4 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@5 usb5 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@6 usb6 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@7 usb7 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@8 usb8 bus xHCI Host Controller usb@2:2.1 enp193s0f3u2u1 network USB 10/100/1G/2.5G LA
I’d say that they lack names to such an extent that they’re difficult to investigate. [1]
However, I see quite a lot of relevant information via lshw:
*-firmware description: BIOS vendor: INSYDE Corp. physical id: 0 version: 03.05 date: 11/13/2024 size: 128KiB capacity: 32MiB capabilities: pci upgrade shadowing cdboot bootselect int9keyboard int10video acpi usb biosbootspecification uefi
*-pci:2 description: PCI bridge product: Family 19h USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 3.1 bus info: pci@0000:00:03.1 version: 00 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pci pm pciexpress msi ht normal_decode bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=pcieport resources: irq:40 ioport:6000(size=16384) memory:78000000-8fffffff ioport:6c00000000(size=68719476736) *-pci:3 description: PCI bridge product: Family 19h USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 4.1 bus info: pci@0000:00:04.1 version: 00 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pci pm pciexpress msi ht normal_decode bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=pcieport resources: irq:41 ioport:2000(size=16384) memory:60000000-77ffffff ioport:5c00000000(size=68719476736)
*-usb:0 description: USB controller product: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.3 bus info: pci@0000:c1:00.3 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix xhci bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=xhci_hcd latency=0 resources: irq:45 memory:90200000-902fffff *-usbhost:0 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 0 bus info: usb@1 logical name: usb1 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub slots=5 speed=480Mbit/s *-usb:0 description: USB hub product: USB2.1 Hub vendor: GenesysLogic physical id: 2 bus info: usb@1:2 version: 34.04 capabilities: usb-2.10 configuration: driver=hub slots=4 speed=480Mbit/s *-usb:1 description: USB hub product: USB2.0 Hub vendor: Genesys Logic, Inc. physical id: 3 bus info: usb@1:3 version: 61.60 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub maxpower=100mA slots=3 speed=480Mbit/s *-usb description: Keyboard product: Framework Laptop 16 Numpad Module Consumer Control vendor: Framework physical id: 2 bus info: usb@1:3.2 logical name: input10 logical name: /dev/input/event8 logical name: input11 logical name: /dev/input/event9 logical name: input11::capslock logical name: input11::compose logical name: input11::kana logical name: input11::numlock logical name: input11::scrolllock logical name: input7 logical name: /dev/input/event5 logical name: input7::capslock logical name: input7::compose logical name: input7::kana logical name: input7::numlock logical name: input7::scrolllock logical name: input8 logical name: /dev/input/event6 logical name: input9 logical name: /dev/input/event7 version: 0.29 serial: FRAKDKEN0100000000 capabilities: usb-2.10 usb configuration: driver=usbhid maxpower=500mA speed=12Mbit/s *-usb:2 description: USB hub product: USB2.0 Hub vendor: Genesys Logic, Inc. physical id: 4 bus info: usb@1:4 version: 61.60 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub maxpower=100mA slots=4 speed=480Mbit/s *-usb:0 UNCLAIMED description: Generic USB device product: Goodix Fingerprint USB Device vendor: Goodix Technology Co., Ltd. physical id: 1 bus info: usb@1:4.1 version: 1.00 serial: UID658D803B_XXXX_MOC_B0 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: maxpower=100mA speed=12Mbit/s *-usb:1 description: Keyboard product: Framework Laptop 16 Keyboard Module - ISO Keyboard vendor: Framework physical id: 2 bus info: usb@1:4.2 logical name: input12 logical name: /dev/input/event10 logical name: input12::capslock logical name: input12::compose logical name: input12::kana logical name: input12::numlock logical name: input12::scrolllock logical name: input13 logical name: /dev/input/event11 logical name: input14 logical name: /dev/input/event12 logical name: input15 logical name: /dev/input/event13 logical name: input16 logical name: /dev/input/event14 logical name: input16::capslock logical name: input16::compose logical name: input16::kana logical name: input16::numlock logical name: input16::scrolllock version: 0.29 serial: FRAKDKEN0100000000 capabilities: usb-2.10 usb configuration: driver=usbhid maxpower=500mA speed=12Mbit/s *-usb:3 description: Bluetooth wireless interface product: Wireless_Device vendor: MediaTek Inc. physical id: 5 bus info: usb@1:5 version: 1.00 serial: 000000000 capabilities: usb-2.10 bluetooth configuration: driver=btusb maxpower=100mA speed=480Mbit/s *-usbhost:1 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 1 bus info: usb@2 logical name: usb2 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-3.10 configuration: driver=hub slots=2 speed=10000Mbit/s *-usb description: USB hub product: USB3.2 Hub vendor: GenesysLogic physical id: 2 bus info: usb@2:2 version: 34.04 capabilities: usb-3.20 configuration: driver=hub slots=3 speed=10000Mbit/s *-usb description: Generic USB device product: USB 10/100/1G/2.5G LAN vendor: Realtek physical id: 1 bus info: usb@2:2.1 version: 31.04 serial: 4013000001 capabilities: usb-3.20 configuration: driver=r8152 maxpower=256mA speed=5000Mbit/s *-usb:1 description: USB controller product: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.4 bus info: pci@0000:c1:00.4 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix xhci bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=xhci_hcd latency=0 resources: irq:47 memory:90300000-903fffff *-usbhost:0 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 0 bus info: usb@3 logical name: usb3 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=480Mbit/s *-usbhost:1 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 1 bus info: usb@4 logical name: usb4 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-3.10 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=10000Mbit/s
*-usb:0 description: USB controller product: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.3 bus info: pci@0000:c3:00.3 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix xhci bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=xhci_hcd latency=0 resources: irq:49 memory:90600000-906fffff *-usbhost:0 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 0 bus info: usb@5 logical name: usb5 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=480Mbit/s *-usbhost:1 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 1 bus info: usb@6 logical name: usb6 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-3.10 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=10000Mbit/s *-usb:1 description: USB controller product: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.4 bus info: pci@0000:c3:00.4 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix xhci bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=xhci_hcd latency=0 resources: irq:51 memory:90700000-907fffff *-usbhost:0 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 0 bus info: usb@7 logical name: usb7 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-2.00 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=480Mbit/s *-usbhost:1 product: xHCI Host Controller vendor: Linux 6.13.7-200.fc41.x86_64 xhci-hcd physical id: 1 bus info: usb@8 logical name: usb8 version: 6.13 capabilities: usb-3.10 configuration: driver=hub slots=1 speed=10000Mbit/s *-usb:2 description: USB controller product: Pink Sardine USB4/Thunderbolt NHI controller #1 vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.5 bus info: pci@0000:c3:00.5 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix usb4_host_interface bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=thunderbolt latency=0 resources: irq:77 memory:90800000-9087ffff *-usb:3 description: USB controller product: Pink Sardine USB4/Thunderbolt NHI controller #2 vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] physical id: 0.6 bus info: pci@0000:c3:00.6 version: 00 width: 64 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: pm pciexpress msi msix usb4_host_interface bus_master cap_list configuration: driver=thunderbolt latency=0 resources: irq:94 memory:90880000-908fffff
I had to double check I wasn’t hallucinating that one!
I am going to go out on a limb and say that any USB-C or USB3 can support dual role if the OS supports it. (Back to your question, Does F41 KDE Support USB Dual Role?) I have not found the answer to that yet.
Now back to your question: I think that based on the Intel link above we are looking for driver support for xDCI, or for evidence that Thunderbolt or USB3 drivers also support Dual Role ‘out of the box’.
Here is a fellow that enabled his xDCI via a hidden advanced settings in the ThinkPad BIOS.
Hence I speculate that the Framework BIOS would have to support xDCI.
The good new though " the kernel even automatically loaded the dwc3 UDC driver (remember that xDCI is based on DWC3), and a new entry appeared in the list of UDC devices"
The Intel FW13s do, but they also support 4 TB ports, so they’re using slightly different USB implementations. #page=2:~:text=Dual-Role USBInsyde SoftwareInsyde Software of the undermentioned appears to corroborate this:
I’ve posted it at SE SU, since I don’t mind losing a little karma over this if it’s not a well-enough fleshed-out question for this topic:
I believe that the UEFI firmware is fairly uncustomised Insyde software, solely modified insofar as is necessary to function on the hardware. Consequently, I’ll attempt to ascertain whether Insyde ever exposes this.
I’ve confirmation that it can involve device-specific kernel support:
However, that patch is not for an FW laptop, and it might be reasonable to expect that the vendor’s USB implementation was deficient.