hi There,
i need to make usage of xorg as some apps, i heavily use, depends on it and won’t work on (X)wayland. So my question is, how to install them in F41 Silverblue?
Couldn’t find anything about that.
On Wayland you still have X11 support through XWayland. Are you sure those apps also dont work there?
To get XOrg back, you may need to switch Distros. XOrg is basically abandoned and Fedora always adopts new tech, which includes dropping old tech.
Just switch to a different spin. Some of them are Xorg only and doesn’t yet support Wayland. The XFCE spin is one of these.
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It was my understanding that x11 was to be removed by default from f41 Workstation and that it would be available for install after the fact similar to what was done with the kde spin where they have the plasma-workspace-x11 package.
However I do not find a similar package for gnome. My understanding was that it was to be something like gnome-workspace-x11 but is not found with a search through all the *workspace* packages.
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Perhaps gnome-session-xsession?
There’s also sddm-x11 that might be interesting (both on F40)
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First, I really recommend trying running your X11 apps in the Wayland session. They might just work with XWayland.
If they still dont work, you can overlay the packages to get the X11 session back. I don’t know the exact packages but gnome-session-xsession is likely the main one needed.
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The ones you could look for are (in Fedora 41)
gnome-classic-session-xsession.noarch 47.0-1.fc41 fedora
gnome-session-xsession.x86_64 47.0.1-1.fc41 fedora
Also, Fedora provides the following spins
Fedora-Budgie-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-Cinnamon-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-LXDE-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-LXQt-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-MATE_Compiz-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-Sway-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-Xfce-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
Fedora-i3-Live-x86_64-40-1.14.iso
and I would guess about half of them are Xorg only.
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Well, and all apart from KDE and Sway are XOrg only
All the information about other spins is great, and I know there are probably many reading this thread for the information it contains.
However, my comment was directly related to Workstation 41 and how to enable x11 after a new clean installation.
It is confusing for KDE to use plasma-workspace-x11 and gnome to use gnome-session-xsession to support x11. For simplicity and to reduce the ‘lost in space’ feeling with being unable to find the needed packages maybe they could at least be named similarly.
Hi and thanks for all the replies
This isn’t true, the Gnome SIG will continue to maintain all the xorg packages, but X11 isn’t installed as a default fallback alternative.
but i found the solution - Thanks to @siosm:
you have to install layer gnome-session-xsession and gnome-classic-session-xsession along with the xorg-x11-drv-* package sutiable for your system.
i need this because some apps (such as autohotkey & barrier / input-leap) won’t work at all and last but not least gaming with Wayland is terrible (adds +~30ms lag) , especially on Soda/Proton based-Games.
Glad to see, that it will work at least a few more years 
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Never experienced this myself, in the hundreds of games I have tested. . . Also you are not gaming on Wayland, you are using a X session inside of Wayland called XWayland.
If you are experiencing Latency, I would not rule out Controllers or other peripherals in your testing.
yeah because of (X)wayland, that’s correct, but no one cares about it, it should just work™. You know what i mean
for example, im playing on my Lenovo X1 Extreme G5 with nvidia RTX 3080 Ti WoW and D2r inside a Blottle - created with bottles - you can clearly see the reaction difference between X11 and (X)Wayland.
That’s also true for the 1st Gen Steamdeck. (tested it with bazzite)
No Controllers involved, just a simple Cherry KC Steam Keyboard (i love it) and a IntelliMouse Classic - the only thing from MSFT i really love 
i don’t care if it Wayland, the X in XWayland, my Controller or the universe. It just doesn’t perform, as it should so Wayland is no go for me.
30ms sounds like nothing. But, as i play wow and D2 Hardcore (only one life), 30ms can be your life-saver, or bring you death.
Cheers
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Note that it does not matter whether you are using x11 or wayland. Both are using xwayland under the hood. Placing the blame on xwayland is misplaced since regardless of whether the DE is xorg or wayland the underlying structure is xwayland.
The inxi command clearly shows this when you run inxi -Gxx under either DE and look at the information given for the Display:
My 1000Hz mouse felt floaty since probably 2016 with Wayland up until F41 beta (Workstation). I don’t really play anything that needs low-latency through Wine, but seemingly D2 (non-Resurrected) and WoW 3.3.5 play fine on Wayland comparably to Xorg and Windows.
At the very least, osu! lazer (AppImage) plays fine Wayland F41 beta with low-latency!
I can imagine that the XWayland layer introduces lag.
There will be WINE on Wayland soon, so this will be fixed.
Other apps like Autohotkey rely heavily on XOrg logic (take what you want) and will need to be rewritten or at least adapted to use portals
I believe that works today (F41 beta with Fedora’s wine Staging 9.15; probably fine F40 or anything with Wine 9.0+):
WINEPREFIX=~/'.wine/World of Warcraft 3.3.5' wine reg.exe add HKCU\\Software\\Wine\\Drivers /v Graphics /d x11,wayland
And unset’d DISPLAY:
DISPLAY= WINEPREFIX=~/'.wine/World of Warcraft 3.3.5' wine 'Wow.exe'
That caused WoW to act a little differently:
Without Wine Wayland (default):
- If WoW is un-focused: It minimizes/hide the fullscreen window
- OpenGL mode (
-opengl) works fine
With Wine Wayland:
- If WoW is un-focused: It doesn’t minimize/hide the fullscreen window
- OpenGL mode (
-opengl) fails to find a render device (seemingly expected; Collabora mentioned future OpenGL support in Jan 2024)
I didn’t notice any improvements and don’t use it yet, but it seems like it can work with some games today.
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Whatß Did i miss something. Why would xorg make use of Xwayland? that makes no sense.
sounds promising
i though OpenGL is dead, because it was used by mac, but mac client switched to metal long time ago… but why should i use opengl? VKD3D (dx12 to Vulkan) works great.
On retail/Battle.net WoW yeah OpenGL is gone; I’m running legit WotLK 3.3.5 client from 2010 
OpenGL on WotLK 3.3.5 seems like it could be more-stable with certain set-ups and works with Zink (Mesa vs DXVK to go to Vulkan), but it also gets rid of dynamic shadows and forces software cursor.
I used opengl on FreeBSD (d3d9 wasn’t ideal for some reason), but use d3d9ex Linux/Win. WoW 3.3.5 only has those 3 choices and I think d3d9ex is the best (Blizz mentioned memory management improvements but I’m not sure what that means for Wine/Linux).
Retail WoW mid-DF I had better performance with DX11 Legacy renderer and DXVK, vs DX11/DXVK and DX12/VKD3D.
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