Tuned causing strange behaviors

Hello there.

I upgrade to Fedora 41 Beta (shouldn’t, but did it) and I had to switch back to power-profiles-daemon instead of using tuned-ppd.

Some strange things started happening like browsers not fully loading web pages, terminals (alacritty, kitty, contour etc) became slugish, atuin, for example wouldn’t even work inside those terminals anymore; DNF inside those terminals took ages to do anything I asked; Hyprland became slugish too, on Gnome it would intermitently happen too. Even setting to the performance (whatever name is called) it would still happen. Switching to power-profiles-daemon all those things stopped, this last two days or so.

I saw that tuned is incompatible with cpupower and power-profiles-daemon which are not in use.

I see that is installs kernel-tools and kernel-tools-libs. Is there any change to Fedora’s kernel or incompatibility with NVIDIA drivers via DKMS?

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We recommend you use nvidia driver from rpmfusion not nvidia.com (that I assume from the DKMS comment you are using).

Often here users of the drivers from nvidia.com have seen issues that go away when they use the drivers from rpmfusion.

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Not from nvidia.com, from negativo17 (which I did not have as many problems as RPMFusion).
Anyways, I removed negativo’s drivers and CachyOS’s kernels too, installed RPMFusion’s one swapped back to tuned for testing.

But, is there a requirement for tuned inside the kernel-tools and kernel-tools-libs that would make/cause problems with non RPMFusion’s NVIDIA drivers and/or third party kernels like CachyOS’s, even Kernel-Fsync etc?

That is possible, maybe important kernel CONFIG is not enabled.

Kernels from negativo17 and CachyOS have come up here before being the cause of support issues on Fedora.

Both solved problems for me, not caused.

Anyways, it already started happening again. For now, less intense, but happened.


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On a fresh install of Fedora 41 Beta it happened once or twice only.

Comparing my backups from my Fedora 41 beta upgrade form Fedora 40 with my Fedora 41 Beta fresh install, in the kernel args/cmdline a variable called $tuned_params is not present on the system that was upgrade. There is also a $tuned_initrd that I’m not sure how to search o my backups to check it was also present or not.

Current fresh install of Fedora 41 Beta

❯ doas grubby --info ALL | grep tuned
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.luks.uuid=luks-b43b0149-b117-4cda-a1c8-4a7a3c4980aa rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau $tuned_params"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.11.4-300.fc41.x86_64.img $tuned_initrd"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.luks.uuid=luks-b43b0149-b117-4cda-a1c8-4a7a3c4980aa rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau $tuned_params"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.11.3-300.fc41.x86_64.img $tuned_initrd"

Previous Fedora 41 Beta upgrade from Fedora 40

❯ cat /<mybackupspath>/root.20241014T085636-0300_2/etc/kernel/cmdline
root=UUID=04d301aa-1f37-4a9b-88c8-745e9a0e1435 ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.luks.uuid=luks-75e2b4c0-1c2e-4136-a739-c53e9ba99fae rhgb quiet mem_sleep_default=deep rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau

Added beta, power-management, tuned

Added workstation

I added the missing tuned tag.

The statement “those kernels solved problems, not caused” is a general thing, or specific to this issue?

Especially when tagging it as workstation the support can only be kinda-promised when using normal kernel etc.

I saw you use doas, do you have any other modifications that are not default?

I.e. could you flash a Fedora Workstation live ISO and try to reproduce those issues there?

I do not see that in my gnome or kde f41 systems.

That there is a $ in the line strongly suggests a scripting error somewhere. Is this something that you have configured maybe?

Check what is in any files in /etc/dracut.conf.d might be where its coming from.

Thank you kindly for the additions.

Reffering to recurring NVIDIA drivers problems when installed from RPMFusion. Like after a kernel or drive update having no output on external monitor; akmods running right after the installation and again after reboot and even then, having problems; all those did not happen with Negativo’s (only when I decide to sabottage myself and change NVIDIA configuration files). And CachyOS’s kernel mostly for curiosity if the set of changes/patches makes really a difference when using my system normally. Didn’t notice anything worth noting, but also it caused me no problems since I started using it. Only problems with both started with an update that changed something with Plymouth and it started throwing errors during boot if I used dracut to Early Load the NVIDIA modules.

Since the 15th of october until today’s morning I was testing a fresh install of Fedora 41 Beta with only RPMFusion repositories and the extras that can be enabled by Anaconda. The previous installation I removed CachyOS’s kernels, Negativo17’s NVIDIA drivers and multimedia, but with no luck.

doas is not installed as a replacement for sudo, but alongside it and I use it a lot. Besides that, Hyprland and the utilities that are needed to use it.

This one now is a fresh installation (until this morning) of Fedora 41 Beta, not an upgrade. That’s why I saw those kernel lines and checked my backups.

Since I had that problem did not appear in the fresh install, I’m now with Negativo’s drivers and CachyOS’s for testing. Based on the frequency of the problems I had before on the upgraded system, those two variables made a huge difference. Not sure if something else was missing from the upgrade, but I’m having no problems now basically with the same settings and packages as before (testin yet).

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Those are not changed by me, I did not touch any configuration this time arround (until this morning :slight_smile: ), those where from the installation with Fedora 41 Beta default kernel.
I’m gonna do another fresh install, but on my external drive. I dont’t want to copy everything again from my backups.

The $ indicates a variable that will be expanded. Currently $tuned_params expands to empty string.

Expanded by what software?

I assume it was a bug for it to be literally on the kernel command line.
Is that a bad assumption?

I think we can call this problem the Beetle-Juice-Voldemort Conundrum :smiley: (because I can’t say the name that it happens).
After 40 minutues or so with the changes (negativo and cachyos) it started happening. A bit different from the way it was behaving when I upgrade, but still happened. This time, it seems, that the frequency/speed in which it would happen is being dictated by the power mode that is set plus what is being used. If I set it to performance, it won’t happen, for the time I used it, setting it to balanced would start happening intermitently and if I set it to power-saver it would start happening if I had more than one window of a browser opened with one playing YT, for example, besides my termnal windows.

To not have to deal with that, I unisntalled everything that was installed, and I’m back to the “vanilla” (Fedora + RPMFusion).

The grub loader will expand the variable. If you check grub.cfg, you will find many variables which are expanded by the grub loader.

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I installed Fedora 40 (original ISO) on my external USB SSD. worth noting I used DNF4 not DNF5 to upgrade.

  1. after upgrading and installing RPMFusion’s NVIDIA dirvers, it did not add the nvidia.drm=1 line to GRUB, because things were really slughish. Note: NVIDIA driver 555 for F40 seems to have problems because the system still feels worth than with driver 560;
~> cat /etc/kernel/cmdline 
root=UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb ro rootflags=subvol=root rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau

~> doas grubby --update-kernel=ALL --args='nvidia-drm.modeset=1' 
~> cat /etc/kernel/cmdline
root=UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb ro rootflags=subvol=root rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau nvidia-drm.modeset=1
  1. after upgrading the full system to the latest available for F40 and upgrading to F41 Beta it did not add the tuned related variables to the grub file/kernel lines.

Fedora 40 fully upgrade before upgrading to Fedora 41

index=0
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau nvidia-drm.modeset=1"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64.img"
title="Fedora Linux (6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64"
index=1
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau nvidia-drm.modeset=1"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64.img"
title="Fedora Linux (6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64"
index=2
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau nvidia-drm.modeset=1"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a.img"
title="Fedora Linux (0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-0-rescue"
root=UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb ro rootflags=subvol=root rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau nvidia-drm.modeset=1

Fedora 41 upgrade from Fedora 40

index=0
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-6.11.3-300.fc41.x86_64"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.11.3-300.fc41.x86_64.img"
title="Fedora Linux (6.11.3-300.fc41.x86_64) 41 (Workstation Edition Prerelease)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-6.11.3-300.fc41.x86_64"
index=1
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64.img"
title="Fedora Linux (6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-6.11.3-200.fc40.x86_64"
index=2
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64.img"
title="Fedora Linux (6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-6.10.11-200.fc40.x86_64"
index=3
kernel="/boot/vmlinuz-0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a"
args="ro rootflags=subvol=root rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau"
root="UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb"
initrd="/boot/initramfs-0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a.img"
title="Fedora Linux (0-rescue-bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a) 40 (Workstation Edition)"
id="bdf2a1d511d3438dae4305da0267979a-0-rescue"
root=UUID=4dfe73f1-47b0-46da-a5b0-d259f1f40ffb ro rootflags=subvol=root rhgb quiet rd.driver.blacklist=nouveau modprobe.blacklist=nouveau

I did not test yet with negativo17 and CachyOS repositories nor I stayed long enough to check if the “strange behavior” would start.

I have seen the $tuned_xxx variables on my F41 RPi4 installation.
They show up in grubby --info=ALL but not in /proc/cmdline.

There is one var to add an tuned_initrd and the other to add kernel args.