I think this tool should be added as a bootable parameter in all releases, because it can provide a bunch of tools, that can be helpful in disaster recovery, hw testing, checksum calc, hw probing (profiling) and in many more cases. I suggest to collect a bunch of cli tools, that can be part of the installer, or recovery, or system diagnostics, security, benchmark and reset. This Toolbox image boots in directly to RAM, we can gain an universal tool, that makes Fedora unique. Best would be to have such tools, that can have easily l10n translation, therefore will be useful to everyone.
Something minimalist setup like Memtest86+, ddrescue, testdisk, safecopy, and such.
Something like the Fedora Security Lab? I think it ships with said tools and many others. i haven’t used it in a Long time ( Maybe Fedora 28. . . ) but it was packed full of forensic and research tools useful for recovery and system management. https://labs.fedoraproject.org/en/security/
Not like Security Lab, only the neccessary system tools, that helps to test and save your system. Tools, that you require to save your precious data in hw faliure, tools that maybe our web installer can use as an extension before and after install.
Well, Like I mentioned in the first post, some of those tools are there. also, some/many security tools are just that. Just that they are named/used/ in forensic environment, it does not mean they are not worthy of recovery. I need to go through what all is in there, but there used to be a ton of stuff to recover data and others.
If you currently download an workstation iso - the bootable iso has no recovery option, IMHO the toolbox option in boot menu would be easy access to everyone to use such tools, if necessary. The difference is that currently you don’t have bootable option, easy access, like a kit, that Fedora system own set to everybody who needs it.
Actually the user has full access for recovery from the installation disk. Knowing how to do that seems the sticky point since new users may not have the knowledge or comfort level to use the command line for recovery.
However, it is important to note 2 things about all tools that may be provided.
First, any tool will only do what the programmer deems important, and nothing more.
Second, any tool is only as flexible as it is configured. Since most of us have unique configs in the way our system is set up – both hardware and software installed – it would be impossible for a tool designed to assist as you suggest to handle all possible situations. Thus the tool would of necessity be designed to handle only the most common situations and be self limited in functionality.
A user at the command line has much more flexibility for unique circumstances and a forum such as this provides access to many users that have expertise in different situations.
Basically similar to Windows world it has recovery partition that it creates latest recovery images on updates before updates etc it has all files and settings etc saved and options are recovery, reset, etc no need separate USB unless you want to. So if you issue problems or want to reset/fresh install you can just go to recovery and there no need USB and go to installer on live. I like this feature on windows alot makes life easier and faster to recover and reset and troubleshooting
That can be also a solution, and can be a nice feature, and that tiny partition can hold a lots of things to maintain a healthy Fedora. I just saying that we should provide by default something like this, not only because of personal reasons, else as we gonna appear on bigger hw providers, like Lenovo, and others. This feature from boot directly can give us a plus reputation. Toolbox idea that gives or could give an independent way from the system, a container, maybe even SaaS - if I think in bigger - saving a client box and data. I know that we can’t give for every case a solution, but recovery, system self test, config saves/backups - with set of tools should be included by default from boot if necessary.
Please avoid using the name “toolbox” for this, since it has a defined meaning in Fedora land already (the scripting around podman which gives you pre-configured containers integrated into your user-land).
Note that containers “run on something”, in particular a container runtime which in turn runs on a host system. You cannot use a container to repair a non-booting host system.
A container is also not a good way to store your data, as others have found out the hard way.
A container is a (one) way of providing a “software environment” (installed software, dependencies, config) that runs on multiple platforms/hosts as long as they provide the same container run-time environment.
OTOH, for recovery/repair, you need something that boots independent of the system which you want to recover/repair, plus the tools (and knowledge) to do that, or a checkpoint of the system which you roll back to (btrfs snapshot, lvm snapshot, ostree image).
SaaS (Software as a Service) is related to cloud infrastructure technologies and the apps provided are usually accessed by users through some form of web interface. This particular kind of web-based software delivery model is not designed to boot, repair, test, etc. locally installed OS.
Hello @zoltanh721 ,
Are you referring to the actual Toolbx (referred to as toolbox) app that is written on Go and provided by default in Fedora Workstation as well as the Atomic desktop version? If not, then I would recommend a title change to reflect the intent of your discussion. A rescue/recovery tool for instance, which seems to be your meaning.
I have modified the title - yet the tool should be the Toolbx. The basic idea of using the podman based Toolbx for me to have a set of containerized recovery tool that people can access testing, recovery, repair, and backup. Toolbx can be the envelop of recovery softwares, and maybe more.
“OTOH, for recovery/repair, you need something that boots independent of the system which you want to recover/repair, plus the tools (and knowledge) to do that, or a checkpoint of the system which you roll back to (btrfs snapshot, lvm snapshot, ostree image).”
Yes, OFC, still think that an immutable recovery system prepared with this can be an universal solution:
" Toolbx is a tool for Linux, which allows the use of interactive command line environments for development and troubleshooting the host operating system, without having to install software on the host."
→ That means for me that actually I can use a container and an immutable system to have/load/use troubleshooting tools, disaster recovery tools, and more without touching the broken system, if all this works from ramdisk? Could run independently? Yes. Can you expand the way you like and have fully working system to save the broken one? To test your ram, or ssd, hdd, whatever? I think yes.
What can be the advantage to have cloud tools, and immutable recovery system loaded in Toolbx?
Immutable backups (against ransomware, and accidental data delete)
Easy recoveries options
Hw testing, sysadmin tools…
Maybe I am wrong, and a simple Workstation system doesn’t require such solution, yet I think having an immutable system with recovery tools could be a right solution.
If you cannot boot the system you have no access to the toolbox or other container as already noted. If it boots then your idea may work, but most of the major problems seem to involve an inability to boot.
Having the recovery tools of various types on an external device (usb maybe?) that can be booted directly sounds like a good idea.