Standard fedora release does not actually last longer than a debian release. More like a year+1 month.
People who want to stay on X until Nvidia fixes the drivers can:
Stay on 39 until nvidia fixes majority of the issues
Use a different X based desktop on fedora 40 that is not currently not on Wayland.(I recommend cinnamon)
Endure the buggyness
Change is inevitable, I’m afraid. As Fedora, we do our best to manage this so we can provide a useful system to a broad range of users… but we are positioned to be fast-moving. X11 is part of RHEL 9, so you may want to look at CentOS Stream 9 (supported until the end of May, 2027), or one of the rebuilds like Alma Linux. (Or, consider RHEL — you can have up to 16 individual subscriptions at no cost, no strings attached.)
Hah, I moved from CentOS to Fedora when CentOS went away. Ironically, CentOS and Nvidia was the only Linux platform supported by Blackmagic Davinci Resolve, and that’s what put me on this path to start with. I installed Resolve but then found it required a special Nvidia driver taylored specifically for them. I didn’t want to risk breaking everything else just to install Resolve. This is a maze of circular dependencies.
I’m no newby at this. I started out with a Slackware CD (DVD?) and kernel version 0.92 which I managed to upgrade to 1.2.3. Later on, I remember calling Dell support asking if they could provide an X config file for their monitor. Their response was, “uh…what?”
I’d be completely happy with Wayland if it just did what I want.
I think removing X11 is too big of a move.
First of all, like Microsoft, if you have older hardware, buy a new one. I have old equipment with an Nvidia GPU and we are not talking about changing PulsAudio or Systemd, but about whether we will run it or not in the environment.
I think there are a lot of people like me who are programmers and have nvidia hardware. I’m a supporter of open source, but I’m not in favor of forcing users to change the entire system because that’s what we’re talking about.
As for xweyland, there is a very big issue related to its use
explicit sync instead of implicit. From a technical point of view, explicit is better. Until this is fixed in many places, and some of the damage to X11 should not be eliminated. Additionally, many things don’t work on Wayland yet, so I use X11. Otherwise, I would have to start using Windows again.
Try compare in blender nvidia is alwyas winer. I dont lik nvidia but in Davinci cuda is faster from rocm and have more power efficiency. In my country power is not cheap.
This is not true if you have nvidia hardware.
I just want to say that yes xorg has less issues with Nvidia… but optimus laptops are unusable in xorg especially if they are HiDPI cause no fractional scaling. (On 4 laptop the same issues)
I honestly hope that this move may wake up Nvidia and other corporation to rewrite and support more Linux and Wayland.
I work on a Lenovo Legion 5 laptop with these properties:
screenfetch
/:-------------:\ jan@Fedora39-KDE
:-------------------:: OS: Fedora
:-----------/shhOHbmp---:\ Kernel: x86_64 Linux 6.6.8-200.fc39.x86_64
/-----------omMMMNNNMMD ---: Uptime: 7h 27m
:-----------sMMMMNMNMP. ---: Packages: 2613
:-----------:MMMdP------- ---\ Shell: bash 5.2.21
,------------:MMMd-------- ---: Resolution: 5120x1600
:------------:MMMd------- .---: DE: KDE 5.111.0 / Plasma 5.27.10
:---- oNMMMMMMMMMNho .----: WM: KWin
:-- .+shhhMMMmhhy++ .------/ GTK Theme: Breeze [GTK3]
:- -------:MMMd--------------: Disk: 3,5T / 4,5T (78%)
:- --------/MMMd-------------; CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 6800H with Radeon Graphics @ 16x 4.775GHz
:- ------/hMMMy------------: GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU/PCIe/SSE2
:-- :dMNdhhdNMMNo------------; RAM: 5057MiB / 15168MiB
:---:sdNMMMMNds:------------:
:------:://:-------------::
:---------------------://
I use Wayland and have no issues, both monitors (built-in and external) are driven by the Nvidia chip, watching videos is great, making a screendump works, in fact all I need and use just works.
I do have one small issue now and then which at this moment I can’t trigger: I use very light themes with transparency and blur and sometimes when I move the mouse cursor a trail is seen showing the path of the mouse. This will disappear after a few seconds and as said, it’s not always like that.
I use the 545.29.06 Nvidia driver with a fully updated Fedora KDE and all I can say is: it just works.
Fedora 40 will probably have the new NVK Nvidia kernel driver, which is already good, but should be >80% efficiency compared to the proprietary X11 driver, and should better support Wayland as well. The proprietary driver will likely support Wayland as well as it does X11 soon.
NVK currently is slightly behind on the supported Vulkan standard, but by F40 I bet it will be close or caught up.
I moved from CentOS to Fedora when CentOS went away
Did you try CentOS Stream? You can use it as a regular desktop (for example, I remixed it) and X11 is working well. Furthermore, you can use Flatpak if you need something more up to date.
Just because you are using it and are happy with it doesn’t mean it meets everyone’s needs/necessities. There are still serious workflow/use-cases that just DO NOT work with Wayland.
Input Leap/Barrier/Synergy soft-kvm is completely broken, still. But to be clear, it’s only broken on Fedora. Upstream (Input Leap) are reporting it works elsewhere.
But that ticket has absolutely no activity on it. It has not even been triaged.
I completely disagree here. There are use-cases which work 100% in Xorg but are completely broken on Wayland.
Soft-KVM (i.e. Synergy/Barrier/Input Leap) simply don’t work on F39.
I think we need to see a full release (at least) of Fedora without any blocking usability failures (i.e. Soft-KVM as just one example) before Fedora can reliably drop Xorg and not leave users in the lurch with unsable systems/workflows.
Contrary to the Nvidia situation, this one is entirely within the control of the Fedora/GNOME developers.
Well, the good thing is that the release isn’t coming tomorrow. We have around 4 months to F40, and this looks like something that can be fixed during this timespan. Once again, not something that forces us to keep dragging Xorg’s corpse. If there are blocking issues, it’s great that you report them and point attention to them (I had no idea about this issue with Input Leap, for example), but it’s still no reason to stop the Wayland adoption.
It not true. Nvidia use explicity sync and xwyland use implicity sync. Nvidia dont change this. Just google. Nvidia implicit xwayland and you see the problem.
Can you explain this a bit more extensive please. What are explicit and implicit sync? What has Google got to do with this?
Thanks.
On my system if I log out with Firefox running the system will not wake up until I power down running wayland or Xorg.
I think they are using “google” as a verb there. Said differently, “Search using the terms nvidia implicit xwayland”
Likely, this is the issue that they are referring to:
I don’t think you can really blame Fedora too much for removing Xorg, given that a lot of people in the chain have pretty much already made the decision for them by time they had to decide when to pull the plug. The Xorg developers have had the project in maintenance mode for a long time, there was a lot of time during which someone could have seriously forked it and took it back into active development to create an alternative to Wayland that moves forward in a direction somewhat more compatible with X11 than Wayland has turned out to be. If that were going to happen, it would have happened already. If anyone does care about Xorg, no one cared enough to revive it with improvements that might have enabled it to rival Wayland during the past decade.
So, what that means… is that if you need X11 support, what you are really asking for is legacy support. RHEL 9 (along with stuff like Rocky/Oracle/Alma) will support X11 for a longer time, and you should find that they all work very similarly to Fedora 34 in most respects, if you used that. That will be supported until 2032, and give you plenty of time. Another possibility is trying something like Solaris 11 or OpenIndiana, which are interesting operating systems… they work very well with nVidia GPUs on X11, but they don’t support Wayland, and don’t really support any GPUs besides nVidia. In my testing, Solaris still seems to totally depend on GLX and Xorg-based video drivers. That might be a platform that supports X11 longer than anything based on Linux will, possibly out of necessity. And Solaris does have a pretty solid history with legacy support… which, is good if you know you will need X11 into the 2030s.
If you’re a gamer and you really want the best experience with your nVidia GPU, though, your best option may be to just use Windows, because that is really still the best platform for graphics/gaming stuff. You can still keep an eye on Linux through WSL on there, and come back to Linux on bare metal when you feel ready, maybe after all the Wayland stuff gets ironed out.
But as far as mainstream Linux, too much has already been invested in Wayland to hold back the transition, and Xorg has been kept on life support this whole time. Whether we like it or not, the Linux community has collectively decided to bet the farm on Wayland. The decision was made over a decade ago that this was the future. And if Wayland fails, then Linux and possibly Unix as a whole fail with it. There is no going back to Xorg and taking it out of mothballs, it’s too bitrotted at this point. It’s now Wayland or bust.
So, what you need to do is come up with a transition timeline, and weigh out all your options, deciding what is most important to you and what you personally can give up and how soon you can give up it or accept a substitute. Giving up Xorg is a big sacrifice… but the choice is out of your hands. It always was, all you can do is decide how and when you deal with a choice that has been made for you. A lot of times life is like that.
At this point, it’s less a matter of whether we want Wayland, and more a matter of whether using Wayland is better than using an unmaintained Xorg that isn’t supported by modern DEs and which doesn’t get security updates, and which is slowly bitrotting and developing potential issues with modern glibc and kernel releases. Even if Wayland is somewhat worse in a lot of ways than Xorg, at this point we have to use it because Xorg is dead. It’s more of a situation where Wayland all that’s left, rather than it mattering which is better anymore. Like, for instance, if you go to the fridge and see only Pepsi, but you prefer Coke, at some point you’re thirsty enough that you settle for Pepsi even if you really don’t like it, because it’s better than nothing. And especially if Coke were discontinued, you’d just have to get used to it. That’s how I think it’s going to be with Wayland… people will realize there’s no more life in Xorg and switch to Wayland because it’s all that’s left.
Just as a clarification here… Fedora isnt planning to ‘remove Xorg’.
There are currently plans for the KDE spin to stop shipping a ‘login on
Xorg’ session. There’s no plans to remove Xorg itself, all the things
still using Xorg sessions (Xfce, etc) will keep working, Xorg apps will
work under Wayland sessions (via xwayland).