6 months challenge

Today I decided to start 6 month challenge using only Fedora Workstation and open source apps. This will be difficult challenge since years I have been using Windows and proprietary softwares like VMware, adobe creative cloud, Photoshop, Lightroom, Nvidia studio products and even office365 and outlook

So I did end all my proprietary subscriptions and installed fedora workstation 39. Going to challenge my self to learn difrent software to find my open source workflow to replace old ones and I have been years hopping not distro hopping just between Fedora and Windows and everytime when something is just working or keeps braking I switch, but not anymore that’s why the challenge

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Good luck on your challenge!
Hopefully folks here can help you out when/if you run into any issues.

This hit close to home for me because it’s 10+yrs now in this “challenge” . It’s been great, and has gotten better ! Allow me to recommend some software since we appear to have similar interest.

The VM stuff is trivial on Linux. Virt-manager and other tools dominate. Better yet, we have namespace environments, Containers. Docker=Podman/toolbox OOTB !

Adobe suite would require several software packages to fill out. Photoshop has replacements with learning curves IMO. GIMP ( with a PhotoGIMP theme, Krita (excellent tool) take the cake for me.

Adobe Illustrator is covered by a superior tool IMO Inkscape ! I can go on about this tool and it’s functionality. Truly fantastic.

Lightroom I suppose would be covered by Darktable. I’m no Photographer so I defer.

Office365 / Outlook, LibreOffice is fantastic here. Thunderbird is probably the most popular Desktop mail client outside of Outlook so there’s that.

You’re going to need proprietary drivers for CUDA work. That includes your creative workflow. . .
The bottom line there is, you want open source, Buy AMD/Intel.

I am currently test driving Gimp 2.99.18RC, it’s an alpha build of the much sought after GIMP3.0 main release coming in a couple months. I use the PhotoGIMP theme because of my familiarity with Photoshop that i have not been able to break. Muscle memory and consistency reign here.

Illustrator vs Inkscape :thinking:

This is easy. I used Illustrator since before is it was part of Adobe. Inkscape is KING here.

It will take some getting used to, but it honestly is the superior software. I always recommend upping the performance rendering in the setting to get more out of the redraws on large files.

Office365 vs. LibreOffice

A desktop user might not see a difference in the change here, but this one is tricky. LibreOffice has been great for at least 5yrs now. Python integration for just as long in Calc (spreadsheets) a tool M$ only recently added. LibreOffice on the desktop has a 1-to-1 with almost everything. For tools like Notes there are other solutions and approaches . . . Obsidian, NeoVim/VimWiki, and many more. The main 3 are covered IMO, Word = Writer, Excel = Calc, PowerPoint = Draw ( or even Inkscape when you get good. . . ) .

A more Enterprise level user would miss out on some features Office365 would provide, Storage, Collaborations tools would all need to be replaced by other software. It’s doable, but in an Organization it’s a much harder thing to achieve. Co-workers familiar with MS tools for decades are hard to convert. . . I did a roll out a few years ago, that was sucessful initially, but canned by upper management at the final stage because of tenured employee relationships with external vendors.

Welcome ! :party:

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Thank you

There is some familiar softwares I have been using on off on my hopping stage, but never had time and patience to learn all, but now I will and that photo gimp is something I never heard will defo take that one too downloaded already VSC, blender, gimp, inkscape, darktable and thunderbird so main line is done for start the journey

Those are my go to need to have since photography and editing, VSC well it is just good and extensions, blender 3D stuff ( still learning 3D website stuff and it is fun ) emails yeah those I use daily I think I have 12 email addresses on my outlook client always

Virt manager need some machines sometimes so valuable option since fedora kernels brakes VMware often what I have seen and Broadcom buing VMware

There might be something what I forget, but atleast I know where to ask help and guidance

Thank you again and really appreciate all the feedback and tips

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:party: Geometry Nodes & GreasePencil :party:

yeah, it’s basically a skin over current UI. Adds fonts and some other things, but it does arrrange the UI in a way familiar to Ps users. I found it useful at first to help with the learning curve.

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Without spamming, trying to add some useful infos:

Good habits, bad habits

Flatpak

You are new to Linux. I would try to use Flatpaks as much as possible. This keeps your Fedora Workstation clean, updates faster, apps are isolated, often officially maintained and they are isolated similar on android, with a permission system.

  • check flathub.org as their website has more infos than the software stores show
  • add the flathub repo.
  • Tbh remove fedora flatpaks, they are controversial, there are very few, they are not officially supported and some have more bugs. They are fine but they make they system too complex.
  • use flatseal to manage permissions. Also checkout warehouse some more cool things.

Linux doesnt seem to have that separation of Software vs. System that I think Windows has. With Flatpak you get that, the core system is very vanilla and all apps are installed separately.

containers

If you are doing some experimental things like installing self compiled software or local RPMs, test that in a toolbox first. Or just use toolbox in general for that, performance is native, it just takes a short time to load.

automating stuff

Imho on Fedora you can automate dnf updates. For sure you can automate flatpak updates. Also you can do a ton of more things with scripts, its very useful.

avoid installing random stuff

Installing software should be done like this:

  1. Flathub
  2. Fedora RPMs (if you miss features or have under 2GB RAM, or if the app doesnt exist)
  3. Rpmfusion, fedora external repos
  4. Use a toolbox and other Linux Distros repos, if something is not on Fedora
  5. Add external RPM repos and install from there
  6. Use a COPR repo that has support for rawhide / the next release after the current one and succeeding builds
  7. Appimages
  8. Local RPM packages
  9. Stuff installed using strange installer scripts (but to your system!)

This order, roughly.

  1. Flatpaks dont touch your system, are sometimes better packaged (sometimes worse, check their blue checkmark) and have a sandboxing model that works.

  2. Fedora RPMs are also nice, they always have a maintainer, a secure build system, will not cause dependency issues etc.

  3. Rpmfusion is kinda official but externally hosted. They ship drivers and media codecs you likely need, but that are not possible to legally distribute without paying a fortune. Rpmfusion is based in france so they can do that. Most popular are proprietary NVIDIA drivers and ffmpeg. Rpmfusion has well packaged RPMs, they may sometimes not be updated quickly enough though, so you need to wait a week or so for an update. The external Fedora repos are a bunch of nonFOSS software that has good Fedora support.

  4. Toolbox defaults to creating a Fedora container, but you can use most other Distros, most popular Ubuntu, Debian, Arch and OpenSuse. This means you use their libraries and userspace but with the Fedora kernel. You can run software there how you like, I installed VLC 4.0 from an Ubuntu PPA (as that was the only way to get it) and it worked flawlessly for opening stuff from my file manager. Desktop entries are the keyword here. Distro packages are all pretty secure and managed well.

  5. Some packages are proprietary, I would not run them as RPMs but you can. At least they should provide a repository though, that you can add to /etc/yum.repos.d/. They should use gpg verification and support your Fedora version, Opensuse RPMs are not gonna work.

  6. COPR are community repos, very varying quality but they may have stuff you need and has not yet undergone inclusion in Fedora. Use them sparingly of course. OpenBuildService is from Opensuse, on both services you can build packages for multiple Distros, COPR can only do RPMs.

  7. Appimages suck, as they ignore eveything that makes Linux repos good. Central package management, gpg verification, updating, searching, uninstalling, desktop entries, file assotiations, shared libraries, … there are many flatpaks that are just repackaged appimages, and I would actually prefer those. They will not touch your system though (if they are not viruses…)

  8. Local RPMs, avoid if possible, annoy devs to create an RPM repo. They will cause problems with distro upgrades at least.

  9. Random install scripts. Often they just place a desktop entry to the right location, linking to the correct executable. Sometimes they install stuff to your system though, which will likely break stuff.

So… just stick to this order and you dont break your system.

stick to defaults

This goes to packages as well as to UI. GNOME has a very special UI and they often break extensions with updates. You can use a lot of them, but be prepared that they break, for example when GNOME 46 comes out.


Good luck, have fun!

Thunderbird is awesome and you may like the “Thunderbird conversations” addon until they add that natively. Also “DKIM verifier” is needed, “quicktext” may help with things too.

Libreoffice is nice, the Flatpak works best but no extensions or stuff like Zotero integration poorly. Impress is cool, but you will need to relearn the background tech like master slides, and create your own mostly. Writer is just as good as Word imho. You may want to use Onlyoffice if you have Nextcloud with onlyoffice, for collaborative stuff.

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Congrats! As someone who has done the same, I’m confident that you’ll find it’s much easier than you originally thought, and that there are similar or better open source alternatives for everything.

Thank you for feed back and guide I did install all apps using rpm from fedora repos and added some manually what I needed like password manager, VPN, VSC somehow I like rpm more than flatpaks not sure why. Will take some time to get everything setup and working especially need to check thunderbird settings.

Fedora is default as it is made I love defaults there is so much I need to do and keep patient and learn since now I won’t hop to another distro or windows when I brake it or just get frustrated

this is so Fun makes me laugh silently Everyone says always use Flatpaks they are safe, but then always rated unsafe do not use marks


then using RPM from Fedora everyhting is safe so TBH misinformation prob

I avoid flatpak, or snaps, and use RPMs. Partly its that I trust the RPMs from Fedora more the flatpaks. Partly it is that I don’t need the isolation.

I do not understand what is unclean with using RPMs.

I avoid flatpak, or snaps, and use RPMs. Partly its that I trust the RPMs from Fedora more the flatpaks. Partly it is that I don’t need the isolation

well said im with you on this one and i guess i should enable non free rpm fusion repos so i can get more RPM apps

I’m rooting for your FLOSS action. For my personal computing needs and adapting to new FLOSS tooling, I’m really happy for my transition to FLOSS. Particularly, I like apps running on multiple platform rather than Linux only.

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Totally reasonable approach. Fedora RPMs work well, are built in a secure environment and save resources.

At the same time they are individual distro packages, which are often not upstream, they can never be as well packaged as something done upstream, as there will always be volunteers doing that job, in an environment not controlled or tested upstream.

This means it is intense duplicated efford, and the packages will work just the same in the best case (if you ignore RAM space or compiler optimizations), and often worse.

It is not unclean to install RPMs, but at the same time you mix system and apps, the system is extremely well tested, unlike “system + arbitrary amount of apps”. Having apps separated is an immense stability improvement (and thats how its done on every other platform but Linux)

Fedora is close enough to upstream to be rarely an issue in practice for me.

This is not true in my experience. Fedora packages are well integrated into the fedora system. When i was forced to use ubuntu, for work, and snap of firefox that was not a good experience.

Again i do not agree with your assertion. Fedora developers do test the RPMs of apps.

I rarely see instability and then mostly not in apps.

You might ask how much experience I have of Fedora?
I started on redhat 6 (?) before going to fedora core 1 release, then all the way to the current fedora releases. At work I have used Centos in an enterprise environment.

I run multiple fedora systems in my home lab for different use cases, router, file server, music player and desktop systems.

Ubuntu is a different downstream packaging system, and snap is completely different from flatpak (and afaik also not officially supported)

I am not sure where that instability comes from, but I was able to destroy all distros until Kinoite, without actively trying or something. That included Fedora KDE.

im really starting to Fall in Loce with daily driving Fedora. Got my workflow setup done everything works, no flatpaks no issues or tweaking, Virt-manager and VM’s setup done, blender and addons done, Google stuff done and all those incskape and gimp stuff done execpt Photo Gimp that i will read and learn later to get it done.

i really love this

on Windows it used on cold boot 38-43% on memeory by default on Fedora 7% only

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Uhm… you have 34GB of usable memory.

Sorry to disappoint, but Windows using that much was a feature not “just bloat”. RAM lasts basically forever, while SDDs and HDDs dont.

It makes a ton of sense to load everything into RAM (when you clearly have enough) to reduce read/write actions on your persistent storage, and to speed your system up a lot.

You can argue that on low spec machines, consuming little RAM is wanted and needed (like the 8GB macbooks that got SSD failures because people ran video editing software on them and the swapfile ate their SSD). Similar to where you would like to use Alpine Linux (musl, busybox) instead of Fedora, or native packages instead of Flatpaks. That may save RAM but they may be slower and less optimized.

People really need to stop “reviewing distros” by opening htop. Consuming that little RAM while you obviously have it, makes no sense. Windows is intelligent in that it uses more RAM if you have more.

I imagine you can use save CPU by not using compression, so Windows may use 10GB of RAM suddenly, and in exchange the CPU needs way less work and everything is snappy.

Not used RAM will not last longer or anything, and it is also not used.

A good memory management should preload libraries, commonly used apps and more into RAM, depending on usage statistics.

Windows is really good at these “high level optimizations” (instead of optimizing how efficient its core is), where their “always suspend, never poweroff” is something that may annoy people, but it speeds up boot (and I suppose also reduces read/write on the SSD) and Fedora doesnt have suspend to this day, which is quite bad.

Well yes I have RAM I need RAM I also have 4K oled touch screen on my work laptop and i9- 11900H so I didint get your point of ranting about memory and other stuff and 2TB nvme on raid 0 and Nvidia Optimus running iGPU Intel and dGPU Nvidia RTX 3050 TI

I was just happy that cold boot memory and cou usage is low and on Normal basis windows hits memory usage 55-60% and then if I go for blender or Photoshop it gets more so if OS uses less way less and I can do everything better without maxing my memory I am more than happy

Flashback, I’ve got some applications I should test this out on today. . . The latency on RAM is great obviously, but most modern SSD’s on PCIe4 can match read speeds with RAM.

I will say, that the modern SSD has an incredible endurance. I think that from a previous endurance run done in 2015, it showed a real world experience with them. To add, understanding that “you would need to write the entire capacity of an SSD, DAILY for a year and a half” totaling Petabytes of data as scope, We see that we’re just fine “beating up” our SSD’'s for a while. Some do proper wear leveling, and have Trim features for those with slightly less security needs.

More so, what is more harmful is actually having SSD’s as cold storage devices ! Not having power for a prolonged period of time is far more harmful to SSD’s because those bits really need some power to them to retain their bytes.

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Thats also very relevant! I can recommend one of the latest videos of “Explaining Computers” for people interested in that topic!

I just think that it is also relevant to see that low RAM usage doesnt say much on many cases.