Offline updates freezing

I made a topic about this earlier but I decided to start fresh rather than bring it back.

Today marks the fourth or fifth time that my system has totally frozen during an offline update. Same pattern every time: no Esc key, no ctrl-alt-Fx, no SysRq—I have to hold the power button to hard-boot. Sometimes the system comes back just fine, but sometimes it can’t boot up afterwards.

There are several parts of this situation I find concerning:

  • Pressing the Esc key during the offline update just shows the progress percentage, not the active step/package
  • Once the system crashes, then it’s really impossible to get the update progress
  • Offline-updates doesn’t seem to leave any logs behind to show what step failed (AFAIK)
  • dnf check always returns nothing, even when the system can’t boot past runlevel 3, so any integrity issues must be undetected
  • dnf history rollback and undo don’t work at all, since the repos don’t include old versions of most packages

I’ve recovered my system a few times by booting to runlevel 3 from GRUB, then running dnf reinstall on all the packages from the failed update. This is a manual process that needs some regex to feed the output from dnf history back into reinstall.

To be completely fair, I’m pretty sure that most/all boot failures were caused by graphics drivers specifically. The tell is that runlevel 5 crashes, but runlevel 3 is fine. Still, it’s a stressful thing to fix, and an inexperienced user probably wouldn’t be able to figure it out.

At this point, I’m convinced that offline updates are actually much, much riskier to my system’s integrity than traditional live updates ever were. The process is much more likely to error out, and it’s non-interactive, so that none of those errors can be handled by the user, so they end up being fatal. It’s especially damning that the live reinstall operation goes without a hitch, after the same packages crashed the offline updater.

Am I missing something here? I have half a mind to disable offline updates for the next few major releases until the situation improves.

If you feel it may be video drivers, and is happening during upgrades, we need more info.

What video card do you have?
What drivers are in use?
What is the output of inxi -Fzxx? Please post that so we can see a little info about the system. (inxi should answer the first 2 questions.)

If you were to do the updates with sudo dnf upgrade instead of the offline upgrade you would have detailed logs on screen showing progress and potentially showing errors that may be causing the boot failures. It may be that you have software installed from a 3rd party repo that is causing the failures since the offline update has no way to handle conflicts.

Thanks for the reply.

$ inxi -Fzxx
  Kernel: 6.0.7-200.fc36.x86_64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc
    v: 2.37-36.fc36 Desktop: GNOME v: 42.6 tk: GTK v: 3.24.34 wm: gnome-shell
    dm: GDM Distro: Fedora release 36 (Thirty Six)
  Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI v: N/A
    serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: Gigabyte model: Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI-CF v: x.x
    serial: <superuser required> UEFI: American Megatrends v: F11
    date: 10/15/2019
  ID-1: hidpp_battery_0 charge: 77% condition: N/A volts: 4.0 min: N/A
    model: Logitech G703 LIGHTSPEED Wireless Gaming Mouse w/ HERO
    serial: <filter> status: discharging
  Info: 8-core model: Intel Core i9-9900K bits: 64 type: MT MCP
    arch: Coffee Lake rev: D cache: L1: 512 KiB L2: 2 MiB L3: 16 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 3881 high: 5100 min/max: 800/5100 cores: 1: 3600
    2: 3600 3: 3600 4: 3600 5: 5099 6: 3600 7: 3600 8: 3600 9: 3600 10: 5100
    11: 3600 12: 3600 13: 5100 14: 3600 15: 3600 16: 3600 bogomips: 115200
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU102 [GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Rev. A] vendor:
    driver: nvidia v: 520.56.06 arch: Turing pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16
    ports: active: none off: DP-3,DP-4 empty: DP-2,HDMI-A-2,Unknown-1
    bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:1e07
  Device-2: AMD Baffin [Radeon RX 550 640SP / 560/560X] driver: amdgpu
    v: kernel arch: GCN-4 pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 4 ports: active: DP-1
    empty: DVI-D-1,HDMI-A-1 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:67ff temp: 50.0 C
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.14 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.5
    compositor: gnome-shell driver: X: loaded: amdgpu,nvidia dri: radeonsi
    gpu: amdgpu,nvidia,nvidia-nvswitch display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 4664x1968 s-dpi: 96
  Monitor-1: DP-3 mapped: DP-2 note: disabled pos: primary,middle-c model: LG
    (GoldStar) 27GL850 res: 2560x1440 dpi: 109 diag: 685mm (27")
  Monitor-2: DP-4 note: disabled pos: top-right model: Lenovo LEN T23i-10
    res: 1080x1920 dpi: 96 diag: 584mm (23")
  Monitor-3: DP-1 mapped: DisplayPort-1-0 pos: bottom-l model: Dell P780
    res: 1024x768 dpi: 83 diag: 408mm (16.1")
  OpenGL: renderer: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA
    520.56.06 direct render: Yes
  Device-1: Intel Cannon Lake PCH cAVS vendor: Gigabyte driver: snd_hda_intel
    v: kernel bus-ID: 1-13.4:12 chip-ID: 0d8c:0004 bus-ID: 00:1f.3
    chip-ID: 8086:a348
  Device-2: NVIDIA TU102 High Definition Audio vendor:
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 16
    bus-ID: 01:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:10f7
  Device-3: AMD Baffin HDMI/DP Audio [Radeon RX 550 640SP / 560/560X]
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel pcie: speed: 8 GT/s lanes: 4
    bus-ID: 03:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:aae0
  Device-4: C-Media CM6631A Audio Processor type: USB
    driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid
  Sound API: ALSA v: k6.0.7-200.fc36.x86_64 running: yes
  Sound Server-1: PulseAudio v: 15.0 running: no
  Sound Server-2: PipeWire v: 0.3.59 running: yes
  Device-1: Intel Cannon Lake PCH CNVi WiFi driver: iwlwifi v: kernel
    bus-ID: 00:14.3 chip-ID: 8086:a370
  IF: wlo1 state: up mac: <filter>
  Device-2: Intel Ethernet I219-V vendor: Gigabyte driver: e1000e v: kernel
    port: N/A bus-ID: 00:1f.6 chip-ID: 8086:15bc
  IF: eno2 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
  Device-1: Intel Bluetooth 9460/9560 Jefferson Peak (JfP) type: USB
    driver: btusb v: 0.8 bus-ID: 1-14:7 chip-ID: 8087:0aaa
  Report: rfkill ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: see --recommends
  Local Storage: total: 6.41 TiB used: 2.84 TiB (44.4%)
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Intel model: SSDPEKNW010T8 size: 953.87 GiB
    speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> temp: 41.9 C
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 vendor: Intel model: SSDPEKNW010T8 size: 953.87 GiB
    speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> temp: 39.9 C
  ID-3: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST5000LM000-2AN170 size: 4.55 TiB
    speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: <filter>
  ID-1: / size: 952.28 GiB used: 238.96 GiB (25.1%) fs: btrfs
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
  ID-2: /boot size: 973.4 MiB used: 527 MiB (54.1%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
  ID-3: /boot/efi size: 598.8 MiB used: 14 MiB (2.3%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1
  ID-4: /home size: 952.28 GiB used: 238.96 GiB (25.1%) fs: btrfs
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
  ID-1: swap-1 type: zram size: 8 GiB used: 7 MiB (0.1%) priority: 100
    dev: /dev/zram0
  System Temperatures: cpu: 39.0 C pch: 69.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
  GPU: device: nvidia screen: :0.0 temp: 55 C fan: 22% device: amdgpu
    temp: 50.0 C
  Processes: 458 Uptime: 4h 10m Memory: 15.55 GiB used: 5.32 GiB (34.2%)
  Init: systemd v: 250 target: graphical (5) default: graphical Compilers:
  gcc: 12.2.1 Packages: pm: rpm pkgs: N/A note: see --rpm pm: flatpak
  pkgs: 19 Shell: Zsh v: 5.8.1 running-in: gnome-terminal inxi: 3.3.22

I have an Nvidia card as well as an AMD card in my system, though I’ve seen similar crashes on the same system prior to installing the AMD card. Here is the log for the failed update from dnf:

(Character limit, see next post)

In fact, I don’t see any graphics drivers being installed, just one nvidia kmod being removed. I am honestly not 100% sure that video drivers are the root cause here, they’re just a common culprit.

Believe it or not, I used to be unable to use offline-updates because my GRUB config was off. (Documentation didn’t get updated after EFI got “unified” with regular grub.cfg…long story.) During this time—maybe 6 months?—I don’t recall any such errors or conflicts requiring manual resolution while using sudo dnf upgrade to install updates.

Not to mention, I fed the full package list from the dnf hist command above into dnf reinstall and there were no conflicts. I think dnf skipped the removed packages, but that’s it.

I think a much more effective troubleshooting path would be to find the cause for the offline-updates crash directly. I have had no luck using journalctl (the timestamps are always out of order, and I can’t sort out all the junk messages), dnf hist just gives me the return code (Failure: 1), and I don’t know where else to look.

And I just have to ask…

Does this mean that if I reboot into the offline updater with even a single conflict, I can expect my system to hang? :grimacing:

$ dnf hist info 369
Transaction ID : 369
Begin time     : Sat 12 Nov 2022 02:35:17 PM EST
Begin rpmdb    : 211347eb5451480e5c4b9c581cf4e3e82c74c390f7095610cbd389b39828af3c
End time       : Wed 31 Dec 1969 07:00:00 PM EST (-1668281717 seconds)
End rpmdb      : 
User           : root <root>
Return-Code    : Failure: 1
Releasever     : 
Command Line   : 
Comment        : 
Packages Altered:
    Install  kernel-6.0.7-200.fc36.x86_64                                     @updates
    Install  kernel-core-6.0.7-200.fc36.x86_64                                @updates
    Install  kernel-debug-6.0.7-200.fc36.x86_64                               @updates
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Unless you are actively involved in kernel development you may want to remove the kernel-debug* packages. They are of no use for the average user.

I see nothing in what you have posted that would indicate a cause for the freezes with the offline update.

What I do see with the inxi output is that the nvidia card is not showing an active port, though it is obviously in use since it shows in the output of OpenGL:

The dnf history list does not show any errors of any kind.
What happens if you run sudo dnf distro-sync?

Yes, I installed the kernel-debug* packages a while ago when I had an issue with audio stuttering. I wanted to check if there were xruns recorded, but by the time I got it all set up, the stuttering went away and didn’t return. I removed them, but it messed up the default menuentry in grub, so I decided to reinstall and let them be.

Not sure what’s up with the active ports on my nvidia card. According to xrandr I am actually using DP-2 and DP-4.

sudo dnf distro-sync returned the exact same change list as regular sudo dnf update. Just some updates released since a day or two since I last updated, seems like.

$ sudo dnf distro-sync
Last metadata expiration check: 0:01:50 ago on Wed 16 Nov 2022 01:18:15 PM EST.
Dependencies resolved.
 Package                            Arch   Version          Repository     Size
 kernel                             x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates       114 k
 kernel-core                        x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        52 M
 kernel-debug                       x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates       115 k
 kernel-debug-core                  x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        54 M
 kernel-debug-modules               x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        63 M
 kernel-devel                       x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        16 M
 kernel-modules                     x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        62 M
 kernel-modules-extra               x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates       3.6 M
 crun                               x86_64 1.7-1.fc36       updates       198 k
 gnome-control-center               x86_64 42.4-1.fc36      updates       5.5 M
 gnome-control-center-filesystem    noarch 42.4-1.fc36      updates        11 k
 kernel-debug-devel-matched         x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates       115 k
 kernel-devel-matched               x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates       115 k
 python3-authlib                    noarch 1.1.0-1.fc36     updates       317 k
 systemtap-sdt-devel                x86_64 4.8-1.fc36       updates        72 k
Installing dependencies:
 kernel-debug-devel                 x86_64 6.0.8-200.fc36   updates        16 M
 kernel                             x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates        0  
 kernel-core                        x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       92 M
 kernel-debug                       x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates        0  
 kernel-debug-core                  x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       96 M
 kernel-debug-devel                 x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       65 M
 kernel-debug-modules               x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       58 M
 kernel-devel                       x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       65 M
 kernel-modules                     x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates       57 M
 kernel-modules-extra               x86_64 5.19.14-200.fc36 @updates      3.4 M
Removing dependent packages:
                                    x86_64 3:515.76-1.fc36  @@commandline  29 M

Transaction Summary
Install   9 Packages
Upgrade   7 Packages
Remove   10 Packages

Total download size: 273 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y
# --- Cut ---

Ran without issues, but I don’t think this will have an effect on offline-updates reliability.

I did have one thought—I have an overclocked CPU in my system. I experienced intermittent crashes in Linux until I added intel_idle.max_cstate=0 to my grub cmdline. I have the c-states set up properly in my UEFI, but linux totally ignores these settings and puts the CPU in low-power C-states unless told not to. Tasks with high I/O (e.g. moving files, probing disk partitions, or installing updates) seemed to trigger the crashes most often. Do you know if the offline-updater is subject to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub?

Anything that does a grub or kernel update is subject to that command line.

However, you may be experiencing instability (either CPU or RAM) due to the overclocking. It might be worth the effort to turn off the overclocking and see if that fixes the problem or symptoms change.

Not totally clear to me why it would cause instability only in the updater, if it gets the same cmdline. Still, I would noramally be game to give it a try, but the problem is that the issue might take months to recur. I would have to run stock settings for maybe a year to be sure—and eschew any other system changes in the meantime, such as the F37 update (or F38 by the time I’d be finished). So I don’t think that works for me.

It would be much better to get some diagnostic info from the offline-updater directly, instead of randomly making system changes and hoping for the best. However, I am getting the sense that these diagnostic functions do not exist, else you would have asked me for their logfiles by now.

I can try to take a closer look at journalctl sometime.

While I certainly do not know the routine use of your system, load, ram usage, disk IO, etc. I do know that an update uses a considerable amount of cpu, ram, and IO with the download and extraction of the rpms, and possible compiling of modules. I can see the bump in load with my system monitor when an update is being done.

That bump may be different than your every day usage and could potentially result in instability when overclocking that is not otherwise apparent with routine usage.