This is a really important question I don’t think I’ve seen asked as of yet actually so I’m seconding if we’d be able to get an answer on this. Because if it doesn’t change much with regards to the workload that would make promoting KDE to a proper edition a lot easier.
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I don’t think FESCo/Proposers should withdraw/decline this proposal. I think this overall (especially if the way that ends up happening is both editions are considered “workstation” and just another option goes into the installer asking “hey, do you want kde or gnome”. Of course this would come down to the workstation working group though deciding this, then probably be taken up to FESCo/Council. I am advocating for dual editions though.
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Mixing GNOME and KDE is always a mess because they mess up each others icons. So no, not an option poorly I think.
I think this could be an option, maybe just in the installer but not necessarily demoting gnome. I think that’s a relatively reasonable compromise.
I think the problem is the confusion it could cause with newer users. Most new users have no idea which one is which.
Also I’d be concerned about any detraction from the live boot experience. While it could go to Gnome as it always has, it could lead to KDE not getting a fair trial in the install. I’ve personally used the live images often to try out a desktop environments or window managers before permanent installation.
(EDIT: grammar)
I think this could also be worked out. Possibly doing something similar to I think its opensuse that offers livecds of all of their editions so you can try it out. However, I don’t think that solution is necessarily a great one.
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I like that compromise, only downside is potentially massive images.
It would basically just be making the existing network image more visible. I’ve seen that mentioned here and there earlier in the thread
I think the SUSE offline install image is 3-4 GB and includes KDE, Gnome and Xfce and LOTS of applications.
Well, not as much as people might think! There was certainly some thought along those lines when we first settled on the idea in 2014. It was a very different time, and a lot of Red Hat was struggling to figure out how to work with the Fedora community (after kind of neglecting it for a while). This is also why we asked for the “What does Red Hat want?” talks at Flock back in those days. So, when this was first set up, building stronger connections in that way was on a lot of our minds.
But in practice:
The Red Hat Workstation product is a very different thing from Fedora Workstation in target audience and usage. We wanted the people making planning decisions for RHEL Server to engage with the Fedora Server working group, but… that’s never really been successful. These editions have some correspondence, but definitely make their decisions independently (even when Red Hatters are working on both — as you know, it’s complicated here behind the red curtain…)
There wasn’t a RHEL-for-cloud when we started Fedora Cloud Edition, and RHEL does not now have that split between Cloud and Server. Our communities decided that there is enough difference between these spaces that different decisions needed to be made. And there is no RHEL CoreOS product.
Fedora IoT is fairly deeply linked to RHEL for Edge, but I’d also love for that to thrive more on its own. We absolutely have a very different target market, and I think there’s a lot of room for this to grow.
This is all somewhat off-topic, but I think is worth saying: we’re already quite independent even with the links you mention. Fedora is still a crucial part of the RHEL development process, but what we do with the Editions is really very much in our hands as Fedora.
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This a matter of process and decision-making authority. FESCo nominally oversees the working groups (so that engineering decisions are not in conflict), but deciding what is or isn’t an Edition is a brand/trademark issue, and therefore solidly in the Council’s remit.
But, the Change process is for engineering decisions and decided by FESCo. That’s why I suggest that it should be closed or withdrawn.
I am going to take the privileged action of dropping the mic and closing the this topic. But, that doesn’t mean these tangential discussions need to stop. If you’d like to reply to this, or some other aspect of this thread, see Site tip: create linked topics for deep dives or tangents for how to create a continuation.
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