#6

I have a ā€œmore traditional Dockerā€ version - I build a network of containers with Docker Compose from official repos in the Docker Store / Docker Hub, rather than trying to build one ā€œpet containerā€ that has everything on my desktop. Presumably I could run the identical network on a cloud server from a Chromebook, bandwidth willing, of course.

One of the attractions of the pet container approach is that quite a few third party packages arenā€™t tested on Fedora - just RHEL/CentOS and Ubuntu LTS. So rather than build them from source and have to do my own support, I run them in containers.

#7

Thank you for providing the links. I understand what you mean by the variances of user set upā€™s, I realize there wonā€™t be a single solution. Iā€™ll have a look through the files, itā€™s good to have examples to refer to.

#8

Thank you for the advice, I went to Docker Hub, and did manage to pull an image. The only issue I ran into was missing slirp4netns. I had to install (slirp4netns) using rpm-ostree, and reboot. I note this is a library used by Podman and other apps, and since you cannot load an image in podman without it, I was thinking maybe there is some issue there with dependencies not being met at install of podman. In any case, once I installed slirp4netns things worked, I could load an image. Now I am armed with examples and advice, I will be reading for the weekend I see. Perhaps, before Silverblue getā€™s a ā€œwizardā€ for post installation configuration options as @miabbott points out, a guide may be a good place to start. In my case, I consider myself a layman in terms of current best practices for container use, indeed the same could be said for my level of Systems Admin knowledge. Silverblue presents (for the average Fedora user) a significant paradigm shift in how the PC is being used. The simple concept of sandboxed everything outside of your core OS bits, is quite subtly more involved than first blush would indicate. Having said all of that, I will say that I was still able to use Silverblue right out of the box when I installed F28 Silverblue on bare metal. Aside from the missing flatpaks of favourite apps, everything worked, at least until it didnā€™t.

#9

The only issue I ran into was missing slirp4netns. I had to install (slirp4netns) using rpm-ostree, and reboot. I note this is a library used by Podman and other apps, and since you cannot load an image in podman without it, I was thinking maybe there is some issue there with dependencies not being met at install of podman.

You are hitting this issue - https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/39

TL;DR - podman should have slirp4netns as a dependency

Itā€™s currently a Recommends, but might need to be a hard Requires

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/podman/blob/master/f/podman.spec#_76

#10

In my opinion, we need input from all types of users. From experts to laymen. :slight_smile:

If you can document your experiences trying to create your own pet container, what worked and what didnā€™t, we could start to build out documentation around this. We know there isnā€™t going to be a one size fits all, but the more documentation and examples we provide, the better off we will be in the long term.

#11

Iā€™ll definitely take some notes while going through the process. Be glad to share, if theyā€™ll be of help is an entirely different matter.

#12

Currently, I am in the middle of machine repairs for my customers, so I am not able to get to this forum as often, but thanksgiving is here and a bit of a break. I looked over the info you provided, which was quite a bit and was very informative for me. It truly brought home your point about the variance in set up. It also reminded me of my need to understand what I am asking before asking it, sort of a conundrum. In this case the question seemed simple enough to ask, ā€œWhat is the suggested approach(es) to correctly set up a Silverblue Workstation?ā€. It isnā€™t in fact a simple question to answer, especially succinctly. I think there is a commonality of approach between the examples you provided for me, and it is that approach I am interested in. Perhaps the Install/Upgrade could offer the option to have automatic setup/configuration prior to creating the ostree, eventually. In the interim, I am starting my approach with writing a list of things I absolutely need to have as part of the immutable kernel, layer appropriately, then move onto flatpak installation of pretty much everything else, including the development setup I choose. I would like to keep within the bounds of operating Silverblue, with minimal/no layering, and copious use of flatpaks. Avoidance of OSTree compromising technologies should be viewed as verboten IMO.

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#13

Hello all,

I have wrestled with this thought for awhile, over the years, and using Silverblue brought it out for me again. I had become accustomed to my rote when setting up a Fedora Workstation for myself or others. As such progressed, unfortunately, the gap between fully understanding what exactly I was doing, and what I thought I was doing during the process widened. With Silverblue I have been forced to come to terms with that knowledge gap. That is what led me to the question I posted here in the first place. It is, not coincidentally, also what gets me to think that another guide/manual may be in order. Fedora has loads of Documentation around it, and also from the greater open source community. In the case of Fedora, I note Installation Guides, and System Administrator Guides, and the Release Notes. What I am now wondering is should there be a manual for Setup/Operation of Silverblue, to cover the topics that are encountered during the lifecycle of use of the OS? I would be willing to put effort into authoring such a document, and not just as a way to pay forward to the community, but also it has been my experience that making technical documentation on any given topic generally adds to your own knowledge about said topic. I am thinking that the above noted setupā€™s, and others in the community can be used as solutions to show what is possible. The guide would range from the very basic to the more elaborate, and even into automation of setup. So what does the community think?

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#14

Iā€™ve also thought we need something more detailed and more Silverblue-specific than what currently exists in the Fedora documentation.

Before Silverblue had a permanent home, I was floating around the idea of these kinds of docs and finally got a copy of it logged on the fedora-docs site.

I would love it if we could get more collaboration over there. Let me know if the ideas are good, where we can add instruction or where we could simplify things.

#15

Hello,

I took a fast look and commented on pagure. I think it is a solid first pass concept and I will go through my personal notes on my efforts with Silverblue so far to see if I can add to what you have started. I definitely would like to help, since selfishly I will learn more about Fedora/Silverblue/Flatpaks/Containers, etcā€¦ in the process.

#16

Sounds great!

I donā€™t think we need to get the docs absolutely perfect the first timeā€¦they just need to be correct with the information contained within. We can iteratively improve them as time moves on; so donā€™t hesitate to submit anything you have, even if the formatting is off or there is more content to be added later.

Also, if you have suggestions on how to improve that original outline, just comment as such and we can continue to tweak it.

#17

So I started an asciidoc document from your suggestions at the fedora-docs site. I was thinking of only lightly touching on the installation since Silverblue already has a pretty good installation document already. Perhaps a bit on making the usb stick using fedora media writer for instance. Once into the manual partitioning vs automatic, again the installation doc does a pretty good job I think. Perhaps some info from the howtoā€™s and guides available in the community already around Atomic say, and ostree too perhaps, could augment whatever we have. Iā€™ve only just got your basic titles and sub-titles arranged in the document so far. I was wondering if I should put it on github for us to cooperatively work on it at first. Asciidoc is pretty good to work with, I use Atom for the editor right now.

#18

Yes, please submit it to the fedora-docs repo. Just getting it started is the hardest part :wink:

#19

Hello,
Do you want me to submit it (the doc) in the template format? Or can I submit just my asciidoc file?

#20

Just submit whatever you have. We can tweak it as needed.

#21

Sure, What do we want to call this document? I (cheekily, and because Iā€™m a motorhead at heart) called it ā€œDriving Silverblueā€, but like I said, I was being indulgent at the time.

1 Like
#22

PR Submitted. Driving Silverblue is now open for thrashing.

#23

Link? I can start testing stuff

#24

HaHa,

I just got the skeleton of a document, and really, Iā€™m not content with the titles. I know that sounds trite but there is merit in choosing a good and descriptive title for what you are trying to communicate/share. I saw your list of items pertaining to this discussion of @miabbottā€™s at the issue site for Silverblue docā€™s, I believe issue #17. Perhaps we could flesh out those particular ideas as a starting point for placing meat on the bones of the document. What does @miabbot think about that?

#25

The link is here, https://pagure.io/fork/jakfrost/fedora-docs/silverblue , but be warned, there is little of substance for your palette.

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