In regards to Change Proposals

I posted this in the off-topic water cooler section, since this post is obviously very much off topic for Fedora. I hope you don’t mind. :slight_smile:

I think there is a case to be made, that many change proposals are not matured enough to go through the proposal process:

I think change proposals themselves are a fine idea. However, if they aren’t used properly, then it may lead to significant burnout. I’m sure this has been discussed several times. However, I will discuss it again, just for the sake of having a refresher. And, I wasn’t in those discussions that were taken place before. So please don’t go on about how this topic may have been discussed before, because I already know.

This is not a change proposal either. And I believe that due to the maturity reasons stated above, it is better this way. It is better to let an idea mature, before it eventually turns into a change proposal. And if the idea is so insignificant, that it doesn’t require discussion, it shouldn’t be a change proposal at all.

The nature of community proposals usually is the following from my observations. Please tell me if I’m wrong:


  • A proposal, which may break things, but requires technical knowledge to surmise how it will break things, which most packagers don’t have

This proposal will likely go unnoticed for a long time, until a significant portion of Fedora users notes that something has been broken. FESCo, or a group of packagers, may or may not note that this proposal has broken something after the fact.


  • A proposal, which may break things, but requires technical knowledge to surmise how it will break things, which many packagers do have

This proposal will be noticed rather soon, and generally, packagers will make suggestions to the proposal, which will prevent this breakage; or will discuss the potential of how this proposal may potentially break things. These conversations are important, since otherwise, a chance of having a broken Linux distribution, which breaks past schedule, would be quite high.


  • A proposal, which requires a high level of technical knowledge to understand, yet is likely acceptable to the community

These are the hardest, since it isn’t obvious to the community what the proposal actually does. I believe this is where good communication will shine. Someone who knows how to precisely determine the potential results of a change, should be the one who writes a good chunk of this proposal.


  • A proposal, which is obviously detestable to the community

These ideas shouldn’t be proposed in the first place. It is generally bad PR, since many members will surmise that the person making the proposal, or perhaps even the Fedora Project itself, does not respect their concerns whatsoever.

A flood of posts will be made, most of which are against the proposal. This is where the burnout issue may arise. Generally, it is easy to avoid making these proposals, if the one who proposes the idea understands the community in any capacity.


  • A proposal, which is acceptable to the community

There will be far fewer posts made. Perhaps some community members will make posts stating that they like the proposal, and that they would like to have more proposals like this. This likely means that the proposal is in good standing.


  • A proposal, which is detestable to the community, where the proposer doubles down

This is what the quote I’ve made above talks about. Perhaps the proposer has their reasons. However, I surmise that a vast majority of community members will not care, and will surmise that the proposer has bad intentions. This PR disaster is made worse by the CoC, which makes it impossible to discuss a community member who may or may not have bad intentions. It protects the proposer from “attacks,” at the cost of the Fedora Project’s reputation, along with the proposer’s reputation.

Obviously, these kinds of proposals lead to the most burnout, since they lead to a constant barrage of community members posting in regards to their displeasure about the idea; and since the proposer doubles down, this barrage may last for several months at a time. Of course, this leads to mostly self-inflicted burnout, although I say mostly, since there are many other factors that could be at play, that neither you or I are aware of.


Feel free to discuss the observations I’ve made, and feel free to post counter observations. I’m very curious what the community thinks about this! This topic is very nuanced, and so I believe that a large set of very opinionated opinions will go a long way; so please have at it!

These discussions will (hopefully) make future change proposals better. Anyone is welcome to join!