Fedora AI/ML Survey is Live until July 31st

[amoloney (Aoife Moloney)]

Hello folks,

I had posted this to the original discussion thread last week, but to make sure everyone is aware of its existence, I wanted to post it in this section too.
The Fedora Council has created a survey that we would love for you to take a few minutes to complete on AI/ML. The aim of this survey is to to understand community sentiment on AI/ML and Fedora in order to help the council create guidelines for the project on this subject.

We had a bit of a road to get to this point, there was a ticket opened, some fruitless discussions, a discussion post on looking for feedback on the kinds of questions we should try to ask, and then an ‘only ok’ first survey So we took community feedback and iterated on the initial survey format to make this second version more general, and more generous for people to share their views about AI/ML in and for Fedora.

We hope you will give a few minutes of your day to share your thoughts on AI/ML when it comes to Fedora and we greatly appreciate your time doing this. The closing date is set for July 31st for this survey, and thanks again for your patience and understanding!

Thank you, on behalf of the Fedora council,
Aoife

[jakfrost (Stephen Douglas Snow)]

Is there a badge for taking it? I did it anyway, thanks for asking.

[msfz751]

Fedora’s scope of AI is very, very limited. For the short term, AI might mean LLMs, GenAI as your survey introduction suggests. But that is not what AI is. Worsened by the fact that LLM or GenAI are machine learning, not real AI. The survey is flawed from the start.

[Espionage724]

I don’t know what any of that means directly, but I thought the survey was pretty good with general questions.

---

I’ll try to finish up the survey proper within a few days, but I generally don’t want to see AI/ML included on the desktop nor at all on Server. Whatever people want to entrust their systems to post-install is on them

Including tools for others to use is cool. If it can improve packaging or Fedora development, I’m kind-of ok with that, but it’ll be a quick distro-switch indefinitely if I see any reported bug be because of AI in some way.

[denalb (Dennis)]

@Espionage724

but I generally don’t want to see AI/ML included on the desktop nor at all on Server

#metoo

[coldreactive]

I do agree that LLM/GenAI is definitely not something the Fedora Desktop should include. Based on Machine learning, it’s more meant for a reference system. It shouldn’t be used to give ideas, manage products, moderate, write code, or otherwise.

[msfz751]

Artificial Intelligence - the scientific version of it - not the over hyped in the news - needs an operating system to reach new heights. There is none. Pretending to encase all AI with one of its applications (LLMs, Generative Models ← machine learning), tells us a lot of the narrow vision in play, and destined to expire once the LLMs fad and hype are gone.

An operating system that truly appreciate artificial intelligence as a science and projects into the future should include:

• Robotics
• Advanced logic and Reasoning
• Object Recognition
• Decision Making
• Knowledge construction
• Evolutionary language and learning
• Machine Learning

The list is incomplete but further branches of artificial intelligence can be found in the literature. An starting book is this: " Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach" by Norvig and Russell. There are other authors with a different view but all agree in that Artificial Intelligence is much more than machine learning.

https://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/

[roblw]

Yawwwwn…
Fedora are not looking to take over the world of AI. They are looking at technology which is accessible to them, here and now, and measuring whether it can be put to good use for the project as a whole. A lot of what you have posted is nothing but misinformation and just negative attitude towards work that others are considering.

There is a lot of potential in what this technology can offer, even in our current state of play. Whether that might be used front end such as GUI launchers for users, log-monitoring or just an integrated tool to allow users to enable a desktop environment for their subscription to ChatGPT, Claude3 or other choices.

To claim ML isn’t part of real-AI is just foolish. The vast majority of what you know is what you learnt from others who came before you. You didn’t invent the language you speak, the way you count, but you learnt which actions to a situation more often than not, provided the best possible outcome. I guess that isn’t “real learning”.

Try accepting where the technology is today, what is actually accessible and can be implemented. Rather than just spouting off trash talk all the time.

[msfz751]

@roblw

Fedora are not looking to take over the world of AI.

Fedora is not plural is singular
Should be: Fedora is not looking to take over the world of AI.

@roblw

They are looking at technology which is accessible to them, here and now,

Artificial Intelligence is not a technology; it is a science.

@roblw

measuring whether it can be put to good use for the project as a whole.

Measuring what? Apples, oranges, potatoes?

@roblw

A lot of what you have posted is nothing but misinformation and just negative attitude towards work that others are considering.

Where? When?
Citation, citation, citation!

@roblw

There is a lot of potential in what this technology can offer, even in our current state of play.

You are not a follower of science, do you? AI is not a technology, it is a science. What is the list of bibliography on AI that you consult daily?

@roblw

subscription to ChatGPT, Claude3 or other choices.

So, it means, the whole purpose is commercial - for profit - and not advancing science? Start with that mission statement at the top of the survey that says that, then.

@roblw

To claim ML isn’t part of real-AI is just foolish. The vast majority of what you know is what you learnt from others who came before you.

How is saying that machine learning is not all there is about AI foolish? On the contrary, alerting readers, software developers, computer scientists, about the richer nature of Artificial Intelligence, and avoid focusing on a narrow field such as GenAI or LLMs, represents a service to science. In case you missed it, Astrology is not a science but Astronomy is. Same with GenAI and LLMs; they are the astrology commercial faction of scientific artificial intelligence.

@roblw

Try accepting where the technology is today, what is actually accessible and can be implemented. Rather than just spouting off trash talk all the time.

The technology of today is commercially, mercantilistic, for profit driven; not science driven. It will dissipate in few months. What will all learned from the hype? That few people benefited hugely of artificially inflated stock prices! And all the people who went to college to get a degree on pseudo-AI (GenAi, LLMs) , will have spent wastefully 4 years, and with no work. It is better to recommend to take the full spectrum of disciplines of AI in preparation for the future, instead of a one-off.

On your last sentence, I do not respond to hate. I prefer logic, reasoning, and science.

[skywalker71 (Tanmoy Das)]

As I am very very new to Fedora a.k.a Linux, about a month old baby , I rather would not participate in the survey, instead I would follow here or where the result of the survey would be posted, if any, and will see other members’ opinions.

[mattdm (Matthew Miller)]

Let’s all please remember to keep this civil. I know this topic can bring strong feelings, but personal attacks have no place in Fedora. Thank you!

[mattdm (Matthew Miller)]

@msfz751

Fedora’s scope of AI is very, very limited. For the short term, AI might mean LLMs, GenAI as your survey introduction suggests. But that is not what AI is. Worsened by the fact that LLM or GenAI are machine learning, not real AI. The survey is flawed from the start.

This survey is intentionally limited. From a philosophical viewpoint, I agree that what we have now is not actually artificial intelligence — but that is the common terminology right now. For this reason, the survey starts with:

We know that ‘AI’ is a broad term. For the purpose of this survey, we mean Generative AI, based on large language models based on ChatGPT, Mistral and/or Llama. Also, please take as a given that Fedora will only include software and content that is free and open source.

For serious discussion of other related technology (whether ML or some broader AI research) in Fedora, please post in ai-ml-sig in Project Discussion. For other AI discussion, The Water Cooler is a good place.